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Seeing that we've all talked about the Sequel Trilogy and what could have been done differently let's take a moment to go over what the original creator of Star Wars had in mind for said Trilogy. Here's more or less what Lucas had planned.

Darth Maul would be the big bad of said Trilogy, training a new Sith called Darth Talon and Maul would become the Godfather of the Galactic Criminal Underworld. The Trilogy would mainly be about Leia and Luke trying to rebuild the Republic and Jedi Order respectfully. During all this there are off shoot Storm Troopers starting their own Galactic Empire and have secured their own planets. By the end of the Trilogy Luke and rebuilt the Jedi Order and Leia is now Supreme Chancellor of the New Republic.

I'll be the first to admit that there are a few flaws with these ideas, most notably for me having Darth Maul be the new villain and training a new Sith Lord in Darth Talon. I'm not a fan of this as we already had the Sith as the villains and this yet again undercuts Anakin's sacrifice since he didn't destroy the Sith.

That is something that bugs me that so far in every continuity Anakin NEVER succeeds in fulfilling the prophecy as the Sith always return which is kinda undercuts the whole "The Chosen One will destroy the Sith". I'm fine with some new form of evil returning as Darkness can never be destroyed but the Sith NEED to die otherwise it renders Anakin killing Palpatine pointless.

So, I for one would just bring in the Night Sisters, still have Darth Talon just make her a Night Sister instead of a Sith. You can even have a Zabrak like Maul who has Force Powers but he was created by the Night Sisters like Savage was and he is the main antagonist and Talon is his Dragon. We have the Mother of the Night Sisters, who I don't think we ever really saw die so she can still return but she's overthrown or let's this new Zabrek male take over.

Similar idea to what Lucas just altered slightly so we have a new threat with new abilities. We can even keep the whole "Godfather" thing and just have this new villain, will call him Corleo (a reference to Michael Corleone of the Godfather Trilogy) gathering the remnants of the Empire to jump start his own Empire.

Once again, I would also keep the Storm Trooper Turned Rebel Hero and Eventual Jedi Knight and still have it be Kira whom Luke takes under his wing as his Padawan. And I would totally have a romance between Kira and Talon because more gay in any media or series can only be a good thing.

But in terms of Leia becoming the new Supreme Chancellor after rebuilding the Republic and Luke rebuilding the Jedi Order? Yeah, those remain the same I actually like those ideas. Hell I LOVE the idea of Leia becoming the Supreme Chancellor as it would be an awesome conclusion to her arc. She starts as a Princess who is secretly a member of the Rebellion to overthrow the Evil Empire and she becomes the leader of the New Republic.

WAAAY better then becoming a General who's most notable actions resulted in getting her ex-husband killed, getting several of her troops killed, nearly getting her son killed and redeeming him only for him die half an hour later after accomplishing basically nothing other then being a glorified defibrillator.

Again, Lucas planned for Leia to be the Supreme Chancellor who rebuilt the Republic from the Ground up. Disney, turned her into a do nothing general who accomplished nothing and only made things worse for her own side.

Luke rebuilding the Jedi order may be predicable and I fail to see why that would be a bad thing. Like the films were so obsessed with not doing the obvious but were also obsessed with retreading old ideas. So, instead of Luke training a new generation of Jedi he's now just Yoda without the endearing personality or wisdom.

On the whole I think there's a lot of potential here and at the very least is moving the series forward instead of just retreading what was done before.

If it was within my power, I would take Lucas ideas, include the few changes that I suggested, have ND Stevenson write up the script and have Steven Spielberg direct the film. I still think a Reboot to the Star Wars universe is coming given it's repeated use of the World Between Worlds and the fact that the future can be changed and as such the past may be changed as well.

And if/when that day comes I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Disney decided to actually use Lucas' ideas for said Trilogy. Maybe that's what will be done, maybe Disney will just make an adaptation of The Thrawn Trilogy. Either way I think it will be an improvement over "Just redo the original Trilogy but with less effort."

Wasn't Darth Talon an existing character from the old expanded canon, and she was a lady not a guy? Red skinned Twi'lek sith if I remember right.

stryke wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 8:58 am Wasn't Darth Talon an existing character from the old expanded canon, and she was a lady not a guy? Red skinned Twi'lek sith if I remember right.

Oh it's the same character. Lucas is a HUGE fan of the character and had been trying to get her into his stories for years. When it was pointed out she was actually from several hundred years in the future Lucas basically tried to shrug it off by saying it was her ancestor or that the one in the comics was a clone of the original or just ignore Legacy and make her canon to his continuity of Star Wars.

While not always agreeing with the chooses made in it, Lucas was an fan of the Extended Universe of Star Wars and mostly allowed writers free range in the universe he created. His only rules his characters or worlds he created could not be tampered with in certain ways unless it was done with his say so. For example characters could not be married or killed off and planets he created could not be destroyed unless he gave his blessing.

The only time this rule was broken was when Luke was married off to Mara but aside from one comedy sketch Lucas did which was him having a laugh at the hate people thought he had for the character, Lucas never really got that worked up over this choice and was even against killing Mara Jade off.

But whenever possible Lucas did work to integrate EU continuity into his work and some writers even approved of the changes he made. It was almost universally agreed that his take on Coruscant was better then in the EU for being a city wide planet as it lend itself to more stories that could be told and was just a better design.

But out of all the characters in the EU Lucas loved Talon hence why she was in his original draft for the Sequel Trilogy as that Trilogy's Darth Vader.

And as you can tell I also like the character as I want to keep her in as she's a lot more fun and unique instead of just giving us another Vader Knock Off. From what I can gather Talon would start as a Sith but be redeemed through romantic love she had with one of the heroes. Hence my idea to have it be Kira as I like the idea of friends to enemies to lovers arc and the idea of a lowly Storm Trooper turned Jedi Knight and Sith-ish, lord falling in love is appealing to me.

Disaster Lesbians for the Win!!!

Winter wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 10:14 amLucas is a HUGE fan of the character and had been trying to get her into his stories for years.

Hm, I only wish I'd know why though...

Winter wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 1:27 am And if/when that day comes I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Disney decided to actually use Lucas' ideas for said Trilogy. Maybe that's what will be done, maybe Disney will just make an adaptation of The Thrawn Trilogy. Either way I think it will be an improvement over "Just redo the original Trilogy but with less effort."

I suspect that if Disney ever make Episode X it's going to be a soft reboot of the franchise. No, they are not going to deliberately re-write or throw out Episode 7-9 but I think the next set of films with have as little as possible to do with any of them. They seem a lot more interested in expanding events around the Original Trilogy than doing anything with their sequels. I would not be a bit surprised if we never see Rey, Finn or Poe again.

phantom000 wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 12:36 pmThey seem a lot more interested in expanding events around the Original Trilogy than doing anything with their sequels. I would not be a bit surprised if we never see Rey, Finn or Poe again.

Give it 20 years. That's how long it took for the opinion to reverse on the prequels.

I suspect the focus on the immediately pre- and post- OT time period is more the old Clone Wars crew wanting to play with their own favorite characters more than anything. Especially the ones they created themselves.

TGLS wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 12:39 pm

phantom000 wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 12:36 pmThey seem a lot more interested in expanding events around the Original Trilogy than doing anything with their sequels. I would not be a bit surprised if we never see Rey, Finn or Poe again.

Give it 20 years. That's how long it took for the opinion to reverse on the prequels.

Couple of things to keep in mind with the change of opinion with the Prequel Trilogy.

1: The Prequel Trilogy Ended on a High Note

While it still has it's detractors most agree that Revenge of the Sith is the best film in the Prequel Trilogy. It had a good story, great action scenes and wrapped up most major plot points while still leaving room for new stories to be told. Rise of Skywalker is, to be blunt, one of the worst endings ever made, leaving no real room for future stories to be told and ending things on the most downer note with little hope for anything new to come.

2: The Prequel Trilogy Has The Clone Wars

At the end of the day the Clone Wars tie-in comics, movie, games, the 2D Series and the 3D Series is one of the most popular series within Star Wars. The shows in particular really helped with that popularity with the 3D series becoming basically Star Wars' answer to Star Trek: The Next Generation by introducing new characters and stories that are almost as well known as the Original Trilogy. Even all these years later it's still considered the best Star Wars TV Series and with huge hits like The Mandalorian and Andor that's no small feat. The Disney Sequel Trilogy's most notable followup is two okay but ultimately forgettable Lego movies.

3: The Prequels had Better Ideas that other Writers Wanted to Explore

One of the most common things agreed upon in the fandom of Star Wars is the Prequel Trilogy had good ideas that were poorly executed. Take Midichlorians, this is still seen as an overall bad idea but later writers came into better help explain what Lucas was trying to say. There are two halves of the Force, the Living Force and the Cosmic Force the living Force is basically what the Midichlorians really are. Then there's the question of what happened to the other Jedi who survived Order 66 which many writes had a lot of fun with as it allowed them to have a way to save characters they grew to love even if it contradicted canon. The most common statement about TDST is that it had bad ideas which were well executed which is the most backhanded complement I've ever seen because it's outright admitting that the Sequel have bad ideas even though they actually don't.

4: Most of this Happen a Very Short Time After Revenge of the Sith

Most of what I've talked about, the Clone Wars 3D series or following-up what happened to the missing Jedi, all happened a little over a year after Revenge of the Sith was release which explored stories set during the Clone Wars or directly after Revenge. As mentioned before the most notable Sequel Trilogy tie-ins have been two okay Lego movies which is really bad because of how good Lego movies usually are and these are just kinda forgotten. Most don't even know there's a second Star Wars Sequel Trilogy Lego movie and just as many forget the first one is a thing that happened.

Most of the projects made after the Prequels have been tying into the Original Trilogy or the Prequel Trilogy with only one major project of TDST in the works which is a film set to be released in a few years. And that's assuming it ever gets off the ground because no one making the film seems to be that enthusiastic about it and most of the other films have been canned due to arguments with the higher ups over creative differences which seems to be the same thing happening with Episode X.

The reason so many Star Wars Projects were able to get off the ground during the Lucas Era was because Lucas himself was very supportive of other creators working on his series and he was mostly hands off in how stories were shaped. Most of the time he just used his powers as head of the series to make minor changes like changing a name or including or not including a character.

Most people who've worked with Lucas have nothing but nice things to say about him because he was basically an ideal Executive Producer, almost never causing any real problems for the writers and not making any real stupid demands.

As such he created an pretty positive atmosphere even if not every project was a hit and people WANTED to work on ideas he introduced because they like it so much.

To go back to the Clone Wars there were many writers who wanted to explore more of Anakin and his fall to the Dark Side and what happened during the Clone Wars. How many writers do you know want to really explore Rey or the fallout of Rise of Skywalker?

Either they have no interest or they're being ordered not to.

Since the end of Rise we have had more stories focusing on the fallout of Return of the Jedi and Revenge of the Sith then we have had ones dealing with the fallout of Rise of Skywalker. We have had a Return to the Clone Wars with it's 7th season, Andor which told a story no one asked for but everyone loved. The Mandalorian is directly tied to both the Prequels with Baby Yoda and the Original Trilogy with it being set 5 years after Return.

Even Galaxy's Edge quickly shifted from a Sequel Era setting to more of a post Return of the Jedi and Prequel Era setting with only the rides maintaining the tie-ins to the Sequel Era with two, admittedly awesome, rides as soon as Rise ended.

5: The Disney Sequel Trilogy Helped in People Reevaluate the Prequel Trilogy

People started reevaluating the Prequel Trilogy before Disney had even bought Star Wars 5 years after Revenge and most opinions on said Trilogy had mostly turned around to being more positive 10 years after Revenge. Sure there were still some holdouts but most had already.

Opinion started to shift more in favor of the Prequels when Disney cancelled anything Prequel Related including the highly popular and still hugely successful Clone Wars 3D series. Opinion again shifted more in the Prequels Trilogy soon after The Force Awakens was released thanks to many noting how it was to similar to A New Hope in contrast to the Prequels doing things differently.

And then came The Last Jedi which did a number of things that REALLY made people reevaluate the Prequels. Most notable the horrible treatment of the actors of that film. Many who hated on the Prequels either weren't aware or played a part in the abuse and mistreatment of the actors and creators of the Prequels because the same thing was happening to the people working on the Sequels.

This was something of a wake up call for people who realized how badly Ahamn Best, Jake Lloyd and George Lucas were treated by the fans as they were willing to either partake in or did nothing to discourage the abuse and harassment these people were treated to. Now that it was happening to actors they liked in a film they enjoyed many started to realize what jerks were and started to take another look at the Prequels and realize it wasn't as bad as they made it out.

Further helping matters was how the Prequels had aged a lot better then people gave it credit for with it's messages and themes feeling more relevant then it did before thanks in part to real world politics that were terrifyingly similar to what happened in the Prequels and Anakin's fall being a bit more well recieved leading to the whole "Good idea, questionable execution" thing.

6: The Sequels Retread the Original Trilogy to Much

"I've already seen this before and seen it done better so why would I re-watch something doing the same thing when I can just go watch the originals?"

This pretty much perfectly sums up the Sequel Trilogy. It's mostly just a lazy retread of the Original Trilogy offering up very little new things of it's own and more obsessed with just doing what was already done just not as well thought out.

Luke's arc in The Last Jedi is a perfect example of this. At first it seems like it's doing something new with him. It's a risky move to take a character we love and turn him into a coward who undid all the good he did. Much like how it's a risky move to jump off Niagara Falls and hope the water just breaks your fall. Not quite that stupid but still kinda stupid.

It's only when you stop and take a step back and really look at what Luke's story is that you realize TLJ didn't actually do anything new as all they did was retread Luke's arc from Return of the Jedi. Both are about Luke confronting his own flaws while struggling with the failings of the Jedi code which Luke chooses to embody by rejecting a lightsaber duel.

I've already seen this before and seen it done better so why would I re-watch something doing the same thing when I can just go watch the original?

And this keeps happening, a Rebel Hero saved by some dressed as a Storm Trooper, a young hero from a desert planet who discovers she's tied to the Force, a planet buster that destroys a peaceful planet and is then set to destroy the Rebel Base and so on. This Trilogy is just the Original Trilogy beat for beat while adding very little of it's own. It's like Eragon, it's just doing A New Hope and I've already seen A New Hope and the Original A New Hope was better, so why would I waste my time watching or reading Eragon when I can just to watch A New Hope?

7: They Wasted Their Own Good Ideas

I've said this before and I'll say it again, She-Ra and the Princesses of Power is what the Disney Sequel Trilogy could have and SHOULD have been. It share a lot of the same ideas, a new hero taking on the legacy of an old on, the original hero's disappeared under mysterious circumstances and seemingly betrayed those they were sworn to protect. A mentor who isn't everything the hero thought they would be who is also hiding a dark secret, a Minion of Evil turned Rebel Hero who becomes someone gifted with great magical powers that they don't quite understand. A struggle between the hero and the ally turned enemy which results in the destruction of a iconic sword and a enemies to lovers arc.

It's all here, it's all surprisingly similar if not outright identical to TDST. It even has another evil come in to replace the hijack the plot from the other villains and a rebellion lead by a woman with Pink hair who makes questionable choices that the heroes butt heads with.

But She-Ra is unquestionably a success and still talked about 5 years later with many He-Man projects getting made thanks to the success of this reboot with another She-Ra series being made as a direct response to the success of this show.

Why is that, because She-Ra made good use of the ideas that TDST was afraid to use. It had tributes to the Original Trilogy of Star Wars (which is no surprised given Stevenson is a huge fan of said Trilogy) but while there are similar elements She-Ra is it's own series while TDST is not. TDST is a generic sequel in every sense of the word. It's a lazy retread that does little new because it wants to play it safe and will do so no matter the potential of it's own ideas because there's a chance it won't be successful.

There are so many other things I could go into, like how there was clearly no unified vision and how writers would undo the work that came before for seemingly no reason. How Rian Johnson screwed the whole Trilogy over because of his apparent dislike of the new characters minus Kylo and Luke and wrapping up the Trilogy in the second chapter for no apparent reason. Or how little was done with Finn, or how Rey was sidelined for Kylo, or how Poe was turned into a bad joke. The terrible costumes, ignoring old lore and continuity for "Drama". The overuse of comedy which often lead to bad use of Bathos. The killing off the old guard and undoing all they did to, again, just redo what was done before.

There will be some kind of reevaluation but I don't think it will be anywhere near what the Prequel got. Especially if the rumors and theories of a in-continuity reboot are true. The only way I see TDST getting a similar reevaluation is if we get some show or movie that does for TDST what Clone Wars did for the Prequels. And 5 years later I still have yet to see such a project.

To add one more

8) The Prequels are so much more memeable

Watching r/prequelmemes morph in real time over the space of a few short years from 'hey, let's poke fun at how much this sucks' to 'hey, let's poke fun cause it's our love language' was pretty dang wholesome, even more so given it's reddit, and it's funny how self aware some of the posters there are about how far they've drifted from the original intent.

There's no memes celebrating the sequels, at most you get a few saying it sucks like the 'Leia as Mary Poppins' but even those are incredibly half-hearted, and I've not seen a single one in years now. Meanwhile stuff like 'Hello there' is being picked up by Disney to include in their shows cause it's achieved funny catchphrase status that got them a ton of good will.

stryke wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 6:34 pm To add one more

8) The Prequels are so much more memeable

Watching r/prequelmemes morph in real time over the space of a few short years from 'hey, let's poke fun at how much this sucks' to 'hey, let's poke fun cause it's our love language' was pretty dang wholesome, even more so given it's reddit, and it's funny how self aware some of the posters there are about how far they've drifted from the original intent.

There's no memes celebrating the sequels, at most you get a few saying it sucks like the 'Leia as Mary Poppins' but even those are incredibly half-hearted, and I've not seen a single one in years now. Meanwhile stuff like 'Hello there' is being picked up by Disney to include in their shows cause it's achieved funny catchphrase status that got them a ton of good will.

Though it is kinda funny how some of the quotes kinda work as unintentional self criticisms.

"The Garbage Will Do!"

"A good question, for another time."

"TRAITOR!"

"That's not how the Force Works!"

"Impressive, every word in that sentence was wrong."

"It's salt."

"Blow that piece of junk OUT OF THE SKY"

"Oh, they hate that ship!"

"No! No! You're still HOLDING ON! LET GO!"

"They fly now!?"

"Rey who?"

With the Prequels the dialogue is cheesy but there's a charm to it and it has something to say it's just not saying it very well. The Sequels seem more like insult that backfire that perfectly describe the problems with the sequels themselves.