Sfdebris.net

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2024 6:32 am**

Before we get this started I want to show you all something, it's the opening scene from Frankenstein (1931), called A Word of Warning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yXgnrA5C9U

Something to keep in mind is that films like Frankenstein, Dracula and The Wolf Man were seen as truly terrifying at the time. This warning at the start of the film is completely serious because this like the Frankenstein monster killing a little girl by throwing her in the water (which obviously wouldn't kill her) was shocking and horrifying to 1930's movie goers.

Today... Imagine for a moment you showed someone who's never seen a horror movie the 2018 Halloween film. This is movie that is a movie that has a lot of graphic imagery and several scenes that are all the more terrifying once you realize that it's something that could actually happen. Then imagine showing them Silence of the Lambs, The Last of Us or even the opening scene from the first Resident Evil movie.

Now imagine turning to them and showing them the 1931 Frankenstein film, which has a scene at the start warning the viewer just how scary the movie is but after the movies they just watched it's not really all that bad. Odds are good they'd be saying, "Is that it? I just saw movie where someone's head was turned into a jack o'lantern, a cannibal rip someone's Tongue out with his teeth, fungus zombies and a woman get her head cut off via malfunctioning elevator. This isn't even half as scary as those other films."

You can likely see where I'm going with this. Korrasami is seen as tame and not overt enough especially when compared to shows that came out after it. But as I've said before what we got with Korrasami WAS extremely overt and very risky at the time but it's easy to forget how much things have changed.

In one month Dragon Age: Veilguard will include the option to let players have their character be transgender and non-binary. This includes using They/Them Pronouns and having surgical scars from transitioning and even has a non-binary actor voicing the main character. Not to mention having a Non-binary writer working with a non-binary actor with a character who themselves may be non-binary. Not to mention the game's director is a transwoman who is working on, quitely possibly, the most important game in BioWare right now.

This of course has enraged conservatives, aka stupid people, who are all up in arms about this and are insisting that this will ruin games. Ignoring that Baldur's Gate 3 did the exact same thing which including the option of giving female characters a dick. And yes, they overacted to that too.

And yet none seems to remember just how risky it was back 2009 when BioWare introduced it's first same sex romance option for male characters. Or when Fox News got so up in arms about the IDEA of multiple Same Sex Romances that they threatened to get to the game cancelled unless those options were removed.

So, yes, Korrasami is "tamed" and "underplayed" by the standards of today. It took Steven Universe almost three years just to get to two women kissing on the lips and that was seen as the gayest show of all time when it was coming out.

I've made it no secret that I love Korrasami and I will never forget the feeling I had when I saw the two hold hands and stare into each other's eyes lovingly. It was, one of the best moments I had ever seen in any story. No same sex relationship in any other series has made me feel as much joy and shock as just these two holding hands and letting each other know, that they were in love.

But it's easy to see why it doesn't seem like it's that big of a moment compared to other LGBT series. Just like it's hard to grasp the shock of why a monster brought back from the dead tossing a little girl into the water is seen as shocking and horrifying that, apparently, it resulted in people actually fainting in the theater when the film was released.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2024 8:33 am**

I think Sarcastic Chorus' video on Mystery Inc's Velma ship discusses it in a way that was spot on in how we were so desperate for any crumb of representation then that even the tiniest morsels of vague nods in that direction were treated as lavish feasts.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2024 9:27 am**

Korra ended in 2012, Obergefell vs Hodges dropped in 2015. Just the sheer overwhelming ratio of people celebrating that vs condemning it revealed what a small loud minority the anti-queer people actually are changed the whole cultural context.

Honestly no wonder conservatives have whiplash, people laugh at their little rants now that a decade ago even big companies took seriously. Turned out the "silent majority" was just a very loud rapidly shrinking minority throwing around weight they don't actually have.

Also OT but the people whining about Veilgaurd's vitiligo option of all things threw me off. Since when is that a culture war thing?

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2024 12:59 pm**

Winter wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2024 6:32 am Before we get this started I want to show you all something, it's the opening scene from Frankenstein (1931), called A Word of Warning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yXgnrA5C9U

Something to keep in mind is that films like Frankenstein, Dracula and The Wolf Man were seen as truly terrifying at the time. This warning at the start of the film is completely serious because this like the Frankenstein monster killing a little girl by throwing her in the water (which obviously wouldn't kill her) was shocking and horrifying to 1930's movie goers.

Today... Imagine for a moment you showed someone who's never seen a horror movie the 2018 Halloween film. This is movie that is a movie that has a lot of graphic imagery and several scenes that are all the more terrifying once you realize that it's something that could actually happen. Then imagine showing them Silence of the Lambs, The Last of Us or even the opening scene from the first Resident Evil movie.

Now imagine turning to them and showing them the 1931 Frankenstein film, which has a scene at the start warning the viewer just how scary the movie is but after the movies they just watched it's not really all that bad. Odds are good they'd be saying, "Is that it? I just saw movie where someone's head was turned into a jack o'lantern, a cannibal rip someone's Tongue out with his teeth, fungus zombies and a woman get her head cut off via malfunctioning elevator. This isn't even half as scary as those other films."

You can likely see where I'm going with this. Korrasami is seen as tame and not overt enough especially when compared to shows that came out after it. But as I've said before what we got with Korrasami WAS extremely overt and very risky at the time but it's easy to forget how much things have changed.

In one month Dragon Age: Veilguard will include the option to let players have their character be transgender and non-binary. This includes using They/Them Pronouns and having surgical scars from transitioning and even has a non-binary actor voicing the main character. Not to mention having a Non-binary writer working with a non-binary actor with a character who themselves may be non-binary. Not to mention the game's director is a transwoman who is working on, quitely possibly, the most important game in BioWare right now.

This of course has enraged conservatives, aka stupid people, who are all up in arms about this and are insisting that this will ruin games. Ignoring that Baldur's Gate 3 did the exact same thing which including the option of giving female characters a dick. And yes, they overacted to that too.

And yet none seems to remember just how risky it was back 2009 when BioWare introduced it's first same sex romance option for male characters. Or when Fox News got so up in arms about the IDEA of multiple Same Sex Romances that they threatened to get to the game cancelled unless those options were removed.

So, yes, Korrasami is "tamed" and "underplayed" by the standards of today. It took Steven Universe almost three years just to get to two women kissing on the lips and that was seen as the gayest show of all time when it was coming out.

I've made it no secret that I love Korrasami and I will never forget the feeling I had when I saw the two hold hands and stare into each other's eyes lovingly. It was, one of the best moments I had ever seen in any story. No same sex relationship in any other series has made me feel as much joy and shock as just these two holding hands and letting each other know, that they were in love.

But it's easy to see why it doesn't seem like it's that big of a moment compared to other LGBT series. Just like it's hard to grasp the shock of why a monster brought back from the dead tossing a little girl into the water is seen as shocking and horrifying that, apparently, it resulted in people actually fainting in the theater when the film was released.

Forgive the stream of conscious writing here, but I am not even sure what my feelings are on the topic.
See I think representation and inclusion are good. As something added in, not as a main focus. And I think both sides of the aisle get their panties in a knot just considering the topics. Look at the controversy of the Mass Effect having a sex scene. What I found notable was one reviewer decried the 'sex simulator' in a children's game. But had not played the game. When they actually played and got there, the same person went "That was it?" They see more risque things on television.
Maybe I just want all the sexuality things to be there but not really noted. Like changing a haircut or eye color.
I want, I was going to say neanderthals but that insults neanderthals. Those guys that insult female gamers because gaming is a 'guy' thing. I think that is as asinine as people that think all video games are for kids.

What do I think of sexual pairings? Heck sure make all of them nonbinary so people can play as they want. I mean single player game they are to be enjoyed by those buying them.

Which makes me hate on some released games where the winning move was to not buy the game. Referring to a military shooter where the protagonist used white phosphorus on civilians and there was no options other than be sick. The game company said the option was to not play. WTF?

Sorry. I hope something worthy of conversation is in here. My mind is all over the map here.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2024 2:14 pm**

Nealithi wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2024 12:59 pm Which makes me hate on some released games where the winning move was to not buy the game. Referring to a military shooter where the protagonist used white phosphorus on civilians and there was no options other than be sick. The game company said the option was to not play. WTF?

OK, I don't want to turn this into "Spec-Ops The Line" chat, but...

A few points that clarify the picture:
- You can choose to not use white phosphorus, but you'll just lose.
- You don't know civilians are in the area you're bombarding with WP.
- The decision to bombard with WP seems like an obvious video game decision to make, but then they throw it back in your face, first with the impact on the combatants, and then on the civilians.
- The decision faces criticism before and afterwards.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2024 4:24 pm**

There's also that Spec Ops is less of a regular video game than a confrontational commentary on a genre of video games and those that play them, which is very outside of the usual norm.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2024 4:53 pm**

Walker is an outright villain protagonist who's made worse because he thinks he's A Hero. He gets everyone he encounters killed and spends half the game hallucinating a villain so it isn't his fault, and everything after the first ten minutes was Walker doing stuff he shouldn't have been doing that he could have walked away from at any time. The WP is the most famous instance of it but really the whole game is like that.

Posted: **Mon Sep 23, 2024 9:19 pm**

I'd argue Korra and Asami is good but if it had continued, you'd need to make it as confusing and troubled as any other relationship.

Joss Whedon is a piece of shit but he was correct that the problem with Willow and Tara was that it was a horror/comedy show and inevitably something horrifying would happen to them.

Just like it did to all of the straight relationships.

Posted: **Mon Sep 23, 2024 9:39 pm**

For me while I really do like Asami... I never saw her with Korra.

Dunno, I just... don't see it between them. Them being Bi, I can see actually, but their relationship just feels... off, given who they are as people. Maybe cause Asami is a smart on her feet woman with plans, and Korra is a sledgehammer. They can work together, but I don't see them being romantic.

Posted: **Mon Sep 23, 2024 10:22 pm**

CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Mon Sep 23, 2024 9:19 pm I'd argue Korra and Asami is good but if it had continued, you'd need to make it as confusing and troubled as any other relationship.

Joss Whedon is a piece of shit but he was correct that the problem with Willow and Tara was that it was a horror/comedy show and inevitably something horrifying would happen to them.

Just like it did to all of the straight relationships.

I don't know, Luz and Amity are one of the most functional relationships ever written with the two having few to no real issues and what problems they do have they end up working out pretty quickly. And that's a pairing that's remains popular while avoiding the traps of being boring or being so sweet it's almost sickening.

In the comics we've gotten of Korrasami I'd say that they've been able to pull off the same trick and I think that comes down to one trick in writing romances. The couple are written like an actual, HEALTHY, couple. It's not that they don't have issues, they do, but they work it out in a way that feels real.

Take for example Luz not telling Amity about her mom, Camila, asking her to leave the Boiling Isles or Korra being angry at Asami not trusting her to watch her back when Asami was being threatened by a gang. With the former Luz told Amity about what happened when she asked her about it but did so in a way that made it clear she would respect Luz's privacy if she didn't want to talk about it. And with latter Asami makes it clear that she doesn't want Korra to feel like she needs to be on Avatar duty every time someone threatens her and Korra explains that she just doesn't want Asami to be hurt.

In both cases these are issues that stem from flaws of the characters and are resolved in a way that also fits with the characters and both feel real and remain interesting because of these elements.

Whedon has a lot of strengths as a writer, asshole he maybe but I do still think he's talented, but the man is incapable of writing relationship, romantic or otherwise, without falling into contrived drama. Willow and Tara are a great example of this they got along very well in the series as a whole and had no real reason to breakup so Whedon contrived a situation where the two would have a falling out and just as they work out this problem he kills off Tara. And pairs up will with whatshername before they breakup later in the comics.

I know it's hard to write a romance like Lumity and Korrasami but it's not impossible and often I find those relationships to be more interesting then having a couple who cannot go five minutes without getting into an argument.

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