Sfdebris.net

To clarify before I go on, I don't mean strangest in "Was this part of the game made while someone was high?" I mean "Why is this mission a Side Quest and Not a Main Quest?" sort of weird. To help explain my thoughts on these missions I first have to explain how HZD's Main Quest structure is setup.

In HZD there are 3 main missions, you have the main quest, which is Aloy searching for the secrets of Zero Dawn, the Nora's quest for Revenge and Erend's quest to avenge his sister Ersa. Now the latter two missions are setup in such a way that it is impossible to progress the main story without first completing them after a certain point but until those points you can ignore these missions. For example you cannot progress to the final mission in the game without first helping Erend avenge his sister. You want to do the final mission you HAVE to do this mission first.

It's a little strange as these missions are designed more like side quests but given that the characters are going to show up in the finale no matter what you do it makes sense that you have to finish their missions first and they at least are important enough to warrent your full attention. After all one is a threat to your homeland and the other is a threat to the place you have to protect to save the world.

The strange part comes in towards the end of the game's second act as there's one side quest that feels like it should be part of the main quest and that's the plot to save the Queen Nasadi and her son, Prince Itamen. This mission is introduced in the main quest, like it is impossible to avoid getting the quest hook for this as you have to go through a main cutscene to get this quest and it involves killing the third in-command of your enemies, rescuing the aforementioned queen and prince the latter of whom is being used as a figurehead to give the Eclipse some semblance of legitimacy which needs to be removed (not mention they're both prisoners and not here willingly). And the scene at the end is treated as if this is the first time we've ever meet Avad even though most players will have met him already ran into him by doing Erend's quest line. This is not even considering that Helis will directly referance these events should you complete this mission before continuing on the main path

So, with all that you'd be forgiven in thinking that this was a main quest that you had to do in order to progress the story, that's what I thought until I looked in the quest menu to activate it only to find it wasn't there and instead listed side quests. I mean, I just assumed it was a main quest, it seems to fit right into that. I mean it was only slightly shorter then the Nora Revenge Quest Line and Erend's Quest Line and again, is introduced in the main quest just like the other main side quests.

So, why ISN'T this part of the main story?

It's like it was suppose to be but the developers just decided to relegate it to side quest despite all its ties to the main story. That's not even mentioning that Forbidden West acts like you did this because the characters we meet in that quest are directly encountered in a mandatory cutscene at the start of the game alongside Avad and Marad.

With all that in mind I wonder if in the upcoming Remaster of the game (which I'm actually looking forward to and have already per-ordered it alongside Dragon Age: The Veilguard) if this mission will be added to the main story and be mandatory to finish the game?

Thoughts?

Zero Dawn has a lot of issues when it comes to developing it's story-lines. Coming out of the Nora-Section of the world, I was faced with following two (to me) completely irrelevant story-lines and, what I percieved as, the only important mission. Strangely, the only important mission (figuring out Zero Dawn) felt like it was the least important in ingame-terms, since it only appeared to progress through me going off the trail and doing things without a literal quest-marker (though there were still plenty of map-markers involved), while following the other two plot-lines only became relevant to me, because I was rail-roaded and literally road-blocked into doing them, because I just couldn't get into the Gaia-facility before I had done the other plot-lines, thanks to functionally invisible walls.

Strangely enough, there's just no good reason to follow those plot-lines to "unlock" the Gaia facility. Aloy, not once, gave the vibe of giving even a single fuck about avenging the Noras (and neither did I, because they're fucking superstitious arseholes and the few who weren't, weren't exactly big into the "YOU MUST AVENGE ME!"-business to begin with). And Erend? Didn't like the guy. He left center stage left before things got hairy for Aloy and just didn't even leave a footnote in terms of relevance on my radar beyond him being a forced quest-hook.
Heck, not even getting into contact with Sylens being tied into these two plot-lines actually does make any sort of sense. Throughout the game, it's made clear that Sylens watches your every move through your focus. However, Sylens doesn't give a fuck about the Nora, nor does he about Erend and the sun-kingdom. Fuck, his entire character is about figuring out Zero Dawn, but wierdly enough, he just doesn't appear in that story-line until you can enter the Gaia facility (through him).

In essence, Zero Dawn consists of three storylines, which are only functionally intertwined through a character that has no business in being present in two of them, but has every business of being in the one he strangely isn't, except until you finished the two other storylines. As much as I loved the world and the character Aloy, this divorce between the (to me) apparent main-character-interest and game-mechanic-interest left me dumb-founded through the entirety of the game. And the (imo excellent) expansion, Frozen Wilds, didn't exactly help there either, because it was just that much more interesting to do, than the two semi-main-quests.

This is an odd thing but I wanna put it here.

I wanted Aloy to be an asshole. Like... she has NO respect or consideration for ANY of these fuckin people. Aloy was raised by the only guy in the Nora tribe with an IQ above 40, and he kinda would lay out to her the world... and given his own bias, Aloy has even MORE Bias as a victim of the Nora's stupidity and rituals. Nora herself only cares about people as individuals, but cares not for the culture or society, given that they force people into weird rituals she has no view of. Aloy is a woman of science, reason, and thought, so she helps people with those methods... but is FLOORED by how stupid and myopic people are and so is, well, a dick to them. To those who aren't, she's far more understanding and patient. Just... dunno, I love the idea that she just straight up insults and mocks quest givers who are stupid or greedy or cowardly. Just full on is a dick, because she was raised by no fool in a land of fools.

I liked Alloy in the first game.

The second game made her beyond obnoxious about how all of reality required her as the sole intelligent rationalist.

CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 2:33 pm I liked Alloy in the first game.

The second game made her beyond obnoxious about how all of reality required her as the sole intelligent rationalist.

Okay, first why do you always spell her name with 2 Ls it just 1 L. Second, huh? There are plenty of people intelligent and rational in both games and her whole arc is her needing to realize that she needs help and that saving the world is to big for any one person to do on their own. The only time I can think of that the story required her to the be soul voice of reason was Faro's Tomb and the reason for that is because she's dealing with a crazy person who will kill anyone who disagrees with his dilutions.

And a common theme of video games is that the player character is the only competent person in the world and everyone else can't do shit without them. Forbidden West is one of the few games that actually goes out of it's way to try to give an actual reason as to why Aloy has to do so much and most of the time it's because the people who are asking for her help can't be everyone at once so they need her to go and do something for them vital. Or they the task at hand requires more then one person to accomplish said task or they are physically incapable of doing what needs to be done.

I've just replayed Zero Dawn and Forbidden West in preparation for the upcoming remaster and I can honestly say that how you just described Aloy better fits how she is presented in the first game and doesn't at all fit how she is written in the second. Still just an opinion of mine but still got to go, huh?

First game Aloy I found pretty insufferable, very dismissive and condescending towards anyone she didn't agree with. Second game she started off like that but the whole point of her character arc was getting over some of that, as part of the acceptance that she needs help.

Winter wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 6:17 pm
Okay, first why do you always spell her name with 2 Ls it just 1 L.

A typo. Its unfortunate but once you get into the habit, it's hard to shake.

My bad.

[Second, huh? There are plenty of people intelligent and rational in both games

I disagree. I feel the first game is dramatically better in storytelling and presentation. I feel the 2nd game's characters are far far dumber.

CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 11:05 pm I disagree. I feel the first game is dramatically better in storytelling and presentation. I feel the 2nd game's characters are far far dumber.

Really can't agree with you on this one, sure there are dumb characters in here but most of them are antagonists like Ulvund or the CEO but everyone else makes pretty sound choices. Take for example how Erend goes about locating the Sons of Prometheus' base, he figures that he can use his focus to find someone else's focus and heads back to Chainscrape to try and find someone who might have a focus. He does so but the guy figures Erend out and destroys his focus but Erend still scanned it to read what data it had left which led him and Aloy to finding out where the Sons of Prometheus' base, first forge, is located.

Or the how Varl is able to gain the trust of Zoe even when she's, justifiably, uncertain of Aloy's supposed skills to heal her land gods and only trusts Aloy when she shows she can help. Sure her the people in charge of her village are idiots but we see through Zoe and other characters in side quests that the leaders are in the minority.

There are a ton of examples in this game of characters making, overall, smart choices in both side quests and in the main story, those are just a few. Most of the "Stupid" choices made by characters are usually emotionally based and they are situations where the solution is obvious but it's hard to think logically when it involves someone we love.