So there was an outpouring of idiotic rage recently with the recent Mass Effect board game, where the character sheets had the pronouns of each character written on them. Among some less notable ones (i.e. Male Shepard prefers he/his! ) Liara was noted to have she/they pronouns. With an upcoming Mass Effect 4, do you think it's likely that they may revise Liara's characterization to reflect changing attitudes on non-binary pronouns?
Re: Mass Effect and Pronouns
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2024 1:32 pm
by hammerofglass
Even back in the first game she corrects you that she isn't a woman if you call her one. There's a good chance they'll spell it out a bit more but it's always been there.
Re: Mass Effect and Pronouns
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2024 6:05 pm
by Nobody700
I MEAN
Asari aren't women. You can't have women if everyone of your species is the same gender. We just call them women cause they most resemble females of every other species and can give birth and have mammaries. But they AREN'T female, biologically. Socially and mentally, sure, but NOT physically. It'd be like if the Krogans were all one species and resembled males and had sex with plants to produce babies. They aren't male, they have no concept of female, but they would consider themselves males. It's just Krogans DO have genders. I'm actually wondering why more alien races don't have unique birthing methods in Mass Effect.
Re: Mass Effect and Pronouns
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2024 6:52 pm
by Nealithi
Nobody700 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 6:05 pm
I'm actually wondering why more alien races don't have unique birthing methods in Mass Effect.
Probably because it really doesn't matter in an action shooter game? Like the floating guys from the first game could lay eggs or bud off new offspring. But does it matter for the course of the game?
Re: Mass Effect and Pronouns
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2024 7:15 pm
by Riedquat
Nobody700 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 6:05 pm
I MEAN
Asari aren't women. You can't have women if everyone of your species is the same gender. We just call them women cause they most resemble females of every other species and can give birth and have mammaries. But they AREN'T female, biologically. Socially and mentally, sure, but NOT physically. It'd be like if the Krogans were all one species and resembled males and had sex with plants to produce babies. They aren't male, they have no concept of female, but they would consider themselves males. It's just Krogans DO have genders. I'm actually wondering why more alien races don't have unique birthing methods in Mass Effect.
Why can't you have a monogendered species and that gender is all female? Bearing in mind that when aliens enter the picture a lot of terms are going to be nearest approximation anyway.
Nobody700 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 6:05 pm
I MEAN
Asari aren't women. You can't have women if everyone of your species is the same gender. We just call them women cause they most resemble females of every other species and can give birth and have mammaries. But they AREN'T female, biologically. Socially and mentally, sure, but NOT physically. It'd be like if the Krogans were all one species and resembled males and had sex with plants to produce babies. They aren't male, they have no concept of female, but they would consider themselves males. It's just Krogans DO have genders. I'm actually wondering why more alien races don't have unique birthing methods in Mass Effect.
Why can't you have a monogendered species and that gender is all female? Bearing in mind that when aliens enter the picture a lot of terms are going to be nearest approximation anyway.
Sex and gender is not the same thing. You can be physically anything and still call yourself a man or a woman.
In fact, that is my answer to the original question. Changing the pronouns usage from she to them seems presumptive. Goa'uld are asexual worms and they have gender - why can't a race that look exactly like women call themselves women? You are also at risk of applying the human binary onto a completely alien culture, society and way of life. Which is problematic to say the least.
Re: Mass Effect and Pronouns
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2024 8:23 pm
by Madner Kami
Nobody700 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 6:05 pm
I MEAN
Asari aren't women. You can't have women if everyone of your species is the same gender. We just call them women cause they most resemble females of every other species and can give birth and have mammaries. But they AREN'T female, biologically. Socially and mentally, sure, but NOT physically. It'd be like if the Krogans were all one species and resembled males and had sex with plants to produce babies. They aren't male, they have no concept of female, but they would consider themselves males. It's just Krogans DO have genders. I'm actually wondering why more alien races don't have unique birthing methods in Mass Effect.
Depends on how you define "woman" or "female". In a reproductive, biological sense, Asari are an all-female species, without a doubt. In a social/societal/gender-framework, the Asari are not all-women, however.
Re: Mass Effect and Pronouns
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2024 8:46 pm
by Nobody700
I should clarify my point, that the Asari are women because they say so, but to me, they are a species without sex and thus, gender is hard to even be described to them UNTIL species with multiple sexes can bring the binary of gender. Imagine if we humans find out about aliens who can just... grow limbs and do so whenever, and this is a binary. Are you two armed, 4 armed, 8 armed? This changes who you are. We can't do so, but we're treated as two arms by them.
Re: Mass Effect and Pronouns
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2024 9:41 pm
by hammerofglass
There's actually a side NPC conversation in Andromeda where the Asari gender and pronoun situation gets spelled out:
hammerofglass wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 9:41 pm
There's actually a side NPC conversation in Andromeda where the Asari gender and pronoun situation gets spelled out:
) Liara was noted to have she/they pronouns. With an upcoming Mass Effect 4, do you think it's likely that they may revise Liara's characterization to reflect changing attitudes on non-binary pronouns?
) Liara was noted to have she/they pronouns. With an upcoming Mass Effect 4, do you think it's likely that they may revise Liara's characterization to reflect changing attitudes on non-binary pronouns?