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In my research for Tomb Raider I found it interesting the Inciting Incident for the series that started Lara on her journey to become the Tomb Raider largely remained the same in all continuities throughout the series. Lara gets stranded in a dangerous place and uses her wits and skills she's learned over the years to survive and return to civilization.

Now for most of the series the place where Lara was stranded was the Himalayas after the plane she was on crashed there but that recently changed in the Survivor Timeline which saw Lara get ship wrecked on the lost Kingdom of Yamatai. Another change made in ST is that Lara was actively looking for Yamatai as it was her first major expedition and she wanted to make her mark and find adventure only for things to go horribly wrong.

One thing needs to be noted is that in the in the comics timeline this event is completely unaltered from the original game while in the Legends Timeline included Lara's mother being with her and dying there. Now this is was kinda carried over to the Survivor Timeline where Lara's mother died after a plane crash while going to meet her husband Richard. But Lara didn't come with her because she was, at most, 5 years old so she just stayed home.

Now to understand why this is important one must understand Lara's relationship with her parents in all continuities. Starting with the Angelita Jolie movies Lara's relationship with her parents is presented in an overall positive light with her father being, at worst, a little distant from his daughter for a little while but still being a loving father and her mother being to good for this sinful world and the best mother you could imagine. This was NOT the case in the original games where her parents disowned her when she refused to marry someone they picked for her and barely spoke to her for years and were shown as being less hurt by her apparent death then her faithful butler.

Again, this all changed after Jolie movies which changed it so she not only had a loving relationship with them but also that her father is the one who inspired her to become an archeologist and both die when she's very young, losing her mother first and then her father a few years later.

This is, IMO, a major improvement over the original games because it adds to Lara's character. Before her parents were just some assholes who disapproved of her passion for adventure and were barely worth talking about. Now they were the ones who inspired her to become an archaeologist and her adventures are now, in part, a way to keep keep her parents memories alive because of the passion they ignited within her.

But back to the inciting incident, in the original games and comics Lara getting stranded is depicted as the best thing to ever happen to her because she realized that she loved the thrill of danger and freedom to do as she saw fit without the restraints of the strict life imposed onto her.

This is in direct contrast to what happens in the Legend and Survivor timeline where this event is depicted as one of the worst moments of Lara's life as she's forced to survive and loses people she loves, her mother in Legend and her surrogate father, Roth, in Survivor. Also, as far as I know, in both the original games and the comics Lara never has an encounter with the Supernatural whereas Legend and Survivor she most certainly does.

In Legend she... okay this is going sound so weird, finds Excalibur in a temple in the Himalayas while she and her mother were looking for fire wood and a place to stay. After touching Excalibur she... (sigh) activated a portal to the future where an older version of herself and a future friend turned rival, Amanda Evert, came through, hijinks ensue which results her Lara losing her mother who pulled the sword from the stone which resulted in Amelia disappearing... Video Games can be really weird sometimes.

In the Survivor Timeline things are a little more straight forward. Lara learns that the ancient queen of Yamatai is trapped in a decaying body and was basically Storm from X-Men if she had no morals and was could transfer her soul to different people. In order to escape and save her best friend aka hopefully future wife, Sam, Lara had to kill Himiko to stop the storms so they could leave Yamatai. Still odd but not as confusing as Excalibur time travel shenanigans.

Now this is no doubt me being more of a fan of the more recent games but I do prefer the overall origin story that we got in the Survivor Timeline. It's more dramatic then the Original games and the comics and easier to follow then the Legend games.

I also like the idea of how this event changes Lara in ST more then the other continuities. The the OT and CT Lara is changed because she finds she likes the danger while in LT it's all about finding her mother. In ST she's looking for Yamatai to make her mark in history, to find adventure but instead adventure finds her. Instead of being a freak accident it was her choice to go where they did and everything spiraled out of control. And instead of just finding herself in a dangerous place she finds herself fighting to survive and protect those she loves.

I also much prefer the idea of Lara's mother being the true inciting incident as that's what drives changed the direction of everything as it's what results in Richard's obsession with finding the truth about the secrets of the world which eventually drives Lara to follow suit.

I just find more interesting then, Rich person finds they love thrill seeking and does what she does for the fun of it. That's not a bad story but I just don't find it as interesting as what we have now.

But what about you? What do you think is the better origin story for Lara?

I honnestly like the original version where it was Lara self actualising through a danger crucible and her parents were basically irrelevencies as that made it all about her and why she's awesome.

Giving her daddy issues makes her much more of a standard protag.

stryke wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 10:52 am I honnestly like the original version where it was Lara self actualising through a danger crucible and her parents were basically irrelevencies as that made it all about her and why she's awesome.

Giving her daddy issues makes her much more of a standard protag.

I see what you mean but for me it makes her harder to relate to not helped by how... unlikable she can be in the original games. When the Trope Adaptational Nice Guy is applied every version of the character I honestly don't see that as a good thing. But back to her origins in the original I just have a hard time relating to someone who is just doing what she does for the hell of it and I think the reason every incarnation of Lara after the original made her parents a central part of her life is because it gives her something for most others to connect to.

That's just me and though and I clearly favor the newest version of Lara so don't take this as anything but some girl who clearly has a bias.

Oh yeah, I totally get why the newer version of Lara is more likable, don't get me wrong.

I just think it was neat that the original Lara was indeed a bit of a git, and was an upper class woman who was willing to get her hands dirty, could rise to new occasion that she had found herself in, and murder the hell out of anyone in the vicinity even if they are incredibly endangered local wildlife with her pair of pistols.

That's a much harder sell if you want to make her part of an ensemble so yeah I get why they changed her up.

Winter wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:07 pm

stryke wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 10:52 am I honnestly like the original version where it was Lara self actualising through a danger crucible and her parents were basically irrelevencies as that made it all about her and why she's awesome.

Giving her daddy issues makes her much more of a standard protag.

I see what you mean but for me it makes her harder to relate to not helped by how... unlikable she can be in the original games. When the Trope Adaptational Nice Guy is applied every version of the character I honestly don't see that as a good thing. But back to her origins in the original I just have a hard time relating to someone who is just doing what she does for the hell of it and I think the reason every incarnation of Lara after the original made her parents a central part of her life is because it gives her something for most others to connect to.

That's just me and though and I clearly favor the newest version of Lara so don't take this as anything but some girl who clearly has a bias.

While I DO prefer her as the old-money-turned-new-money thrill-seeker who stumbles onto impending supernatural apocalypses roughly annually, I ALSO agree that that version needs some humanization.

Maybe she's noticeably a history nerd and gushes when she finds flipping Atlantis or El Dorado.
Could do like most folks do Indy Jones now and give her a "this belongs in a museum... preferably one in it's region of origin" philosophy. She is than continually disappointed when MOST of what she finds happens to be pre-historic WMDs that she she has to destroy for the world's sake.

Another good one is letting her have her support network of companions (Alistair, Zip, Jonah, Sam, etc.) and not JUST Winston and that one priest. Her having people to talk to goes a long way to making her much less of a loner psychopath.

ProfessorDetective wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 9:05 pm

Winter wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:07 pm

stryke wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 10:52 am I honnestly like the original version where it was Lara self actualising through a danger crucible and her parents were basically irrelevencies as that made it all about her and why she's awesome.

Giving her daddy issues makes her much more of a standard protag.

I see what you mean but for me it makes her harder to relate to not helped by how... unlikable she can be in the original games. When the Trope Adaptational Nice Guy is applied every version of the character I honestly don't see that as a good thing. But back to her origins in the original I just have a hard time relating to someone who is just doing what she does for the hell of it and I think the reason every incarnation of Lara after the original made her parents a central part of her life is because it gives her something for most others to connect to.

That's just me and though and I clearly favor the newest version of Lara so don't take this as anything but some girl who clearly has a bias.

While I DO prefer her as the old-money-turned-new-money thrill-seeker who stumbles onto impending supernatural apocalypses roughly annually, I ALSO agree that that version needs some humanization.

Maybe she's noticeably a history nerd and gushes when she finds flipping Atlantis or El Dorado.
Could do like most folks do Indy Jones now and give her a "this belongs in a museum... preferably one in it's region of origin" philosophy. She is than continually disappointed when MOST of what she finds happens to be pre-historic WMDs that she she has to destroy for the world's sake.

Another good one is letting her have her support network of companions (Alistair, Zip, Jonah, Sam, etc.) and not JUST Winston and that one priest. Her having people to talk to goes a long way to making her much less of a loner psychopath.

I do wonder how big Lara's support structure needs to be though. At the end of the day this is Lara's story and I don't think she needs that many characters. Really I think it should stick to Lara, Sam, Winston and Zip with Sam as Lara's partner and lover, Winston as her father and Zip as her brother. Jonah is kinda redundant as there's nothing he does that isn't already done by other characters. He's the brother (Zip) the heart (Sam) the wise counselor (Winston) and in terms of being "The Big Guy" Lara is a one woman army and Jonah hasn't really done anything of note to warrant being dubbed the team muscle.

I want to see Sam fight alongside Lara Sam has proven to be a badass. I still hold that giving her magical powers (ones that she learns and gains on her own that have nothing to do with Himiko) is something that would make her stand out from Lara in combat.

And, hot take incoming, I don't think she really needs Zip. At the end of the day Zip is there mainly for hacking (which isn't going to do her much good in raiding tombs) tech (which she almost never uses) and giving Lara someone to talk to (which can be done by Sam). Not saying I don't want Zip here I just don't see much of a use for him.

Then we have Winston but I'll talk about him in another post but he at least is a character I can see staying around as it's nice to see Lara having a father figure in her life that manages to stay with her.

I want Lara to have people in her life but this i still a fairly small scale series and normally you want to keep the core cast small in order to have as much focus on Lara as possible as it is her series.

For me I think Sam and Winston would be more then enough with Zip as a reoccurring support character, like Felix Leiter from 007. A major character who helps out and fills the role of surrogate brother but not part of the main cast.

Hah, okay how about this my pitch to make original flavour somewhat unlikable Lara work is to do something like a modern day Xena with Lara Croft in the Xena role and Sam in the Gabrielle role so she'd be there as her concience which Lara kinda needs given her inclination to solve most problems by shooting them, and of course also love interest. Plus then you're not making Lara into her whip wielding behatted inspiration by having Sam be the one asking if Lara really needs all of these native artefacts as souvenirs to take back to her mansion. Have everyone else as occasionally occuring side characters at most, and then really focus on the duo's globe trotting adventures as they save the world, shoot stuff, and I'll leave the rest for the fanfic writers.

stryke wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 11:43 pm Hah, okay how about this my pitch to make original flavour somewhat unlikable Lara work is to do something like a modern day Xena with Lara Croft in the Xena role and Sam in the Gabrielle role so she'd be there as her concience which Lara kinda needs given her inclination to solve most problems by shooting them, and of course also love interest. Plus then you're not making Lara into her whip wielding behatted inspiration by having Sam be the one asking if Lara really needs all of these native artefacts as souvenirs to take back to her mansion. Have everyone else as occasionally occuring side characters at most, and then really focus on the duo's globe trotting adventures as they save the world, shoot stuff, and I'll leave the rest for the fanfic writers.

Hm, so you're idea is basically having it where Lara starts off as Classic Lara but develops into Survivor Lara. Would Lara and Sam have met before the series or during it if the former would it be the overall arc of the Survivor timeline with Yamatai with Lara pushing Sam away and her Tomb Raiding is a result of her trying to protect her but this meant she became more cold as a result.

If the latter does Lara hire Sam to film one of her finds like what we got in Uncharted with Nate and Elena?

Personally I prefer the idea of them meeting in collage and going through Yamatai together but I'm open to the other idea.

Hadn't thought too deeply about it outside of the amusing concept to me of riffing on the other action lady of the 90's but on thinking about it my rough concept was a couple of years older Lara who already has some experiences under her belt on Yamatai for artefact hunting, ends up discovering Sam being used for the ritual, rescues her cause why not, and they end up together going forward from that.

Edit: Okay, more thinking, basically do the survivor timeline without young Lara being present with that group, follow Sam as the pov up into the ritual speeding it along to get to it, then introduce older Lara guns blazing, and sell the hell out of her being the consumate Tomb Raider, have Sam be in total awe at this lady who has turned up to rescue her, and then after a bunch of daring highly vertical jumps and scrapes getting out to really get the adrenaline going have her realise that her rescue was pretty incidental to Lara on the basis she happened to be there. Then roll from there, Sam has her magic stuff going on, her influence helps smooth out Lara's rougher edges, and it's just a good time.

I'm going to make a controversial choice that "Survivor Lara" is actually not a great origin for her despite being a fantastic story. Because the character created by Survivor Lara is fundamentally a really bad fit for the TOMB RAIDER universe.

Who is Lara Croft?

Is she a happy go-lucky globe trotting adventuress who wears evening dresses, khaki shorts, and has a variety of romantic as well as heroic adventures across the globe? Is she someone who absolutely LOVES archaeology and has a quirky sly sense of humor?

You know, the Angelina Jolie and pre-reboot persona?

Or is she a haunted, fanatical, short murder hobo who is out to kill all of Trinity for revenge and carries a huge weight on her shoulders for all the people she's failed to save?