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In my opinion, Gohan's transformation into Super Saiyan 2 is the best transformation in the series, even beating out Goku's transformation into Super Saiyan 1 because it's the culmination of his character arc up to that point. It's an iconic scene that is engraved into fandom and with good reason, it's an amazing scene that is so iconic that Dragon Ball Superhero would end up copying it almost shot for shot when Gohan unlocked his Beast form.

There's just one problem, Super Saiyan 2 kinda suck on a visual level. With everyone else, including Gohan in later seasons, if not for the lightning you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between Super Saiyan 1 and 2. The only time it it has a notable different look is the first time Gohan transforms where his hair stands up on end and honestly I didn't notice much of a difference and when Gohan changed his hairstyle when he got older it became impossible to tell the difference between the two forms.

Then Superhero came out and introduced Gohan Beast and as I mentioned before the transformation into this form is a complete ripoff of Gohan's transformation into SS2, right down to the pose he's in and I can't help but wonder, in a reboot of Dragon Ball that I've talked about, Should Beast be turned into SS2?

Sure it would be a little odd as we go from the traditional Gold Hair and Green eyes of Super Saiyan to the Silver hair and red eyes of Beast while I would leave SS3 unaltered but it's not that odd. Keep in mind that Super Saiyan 4 looks nothing like the other Super Saiyan forms and that form is highly popular with fans so there is a precedence for other forms of Super Saiyan to look different from one another.

And would help to make Gohan's transformation into SS2 more significant since now we see that he really has unlocked something that was unknown up to this point. Also the red eyes of Beast would make him look all the more terrifying during his fight with Cell.

I think the mos damning point against SS2 is that Toriyama forgot it existed. That's not a joke, while writing Battle of the Gods he thought that SS3 was SS2.

Also, I just think the line up would look cool.

I explained this in another post.

The reason why Gohan's transformation doesn't truly look that much different from the other forms, is because it's following a line of SSJ stages or Grades. SSJ3 is the one that throws it off.

Grade 1 is the base SSJ that everyone takes on initially. It's unrefined, it does drain stamina and it also does affect the Saiyan emotionally.

Grade 2 is what Super Vegeta was. Trunks and eventually Goku take on this form. Basically it forces more energy which bulks up the physical form but also drains the body faster. You could theorize this might be a higher boost than the base 50x. This introduces a bit of rigid golden hair.

Grade 3 is what Trunk used on Perfect Cell. It's the logical conclusion of that forced energy boost that bulks up the muscles to the point where they actually get in the way. If you watch or read the Manga, Trunks repeatedly has to stop and power up again. Like sprints and then take a breath. This form introduces the zappy zaps.

Grade 4 is just Grade 1 that is fully mastered. Little to no stamina drain until heavy fighting happens. It also doesn't affect the emotions of the user. There is also an idea the gold hair is a lighter shade but this could have been just a refinement of the anime itself. It's also debatable if this grade is more powerful than the base 50x multiplier as well.

Grade 5 is SSJ2. We should start that this is a 2x boost over SSJ Grade 4. But Gohan was using his potential through his anger to further boost this to even atm estimated 2-3x over the base SSJ2 form. This is where the combination of all the Grades come in. The rigid hair, zappy zaps. He achieved this form. The Ascended Super Saiyan something start started with Vegeta's defeat by Android 18.

That is the narrative at the time. Beast Gohan is just a ripoff of exactly this. Yes, we know that Gohan since the beginning of the Tournament of Power was looking to a different way of surpassing his power than using SSJ or the God forms. So it wasn't exactly an ass pull. The form however is just over the top.

I don't think it's that over the top, it's really just regular Super Saiyan with silver hair and red eyes along with a purple and red aura instead of the regular Yellow aura from Super Saiyan. I just think that, in a reboot, making it so GB is now SS2 would change the design to help it stand out as SS2 is treated as a different form altogether so why not lean into that.

The original narrative point can remain intact, having it where the Saiyans are trying to find a way to make SS1 more powerful and Gohan makes a breakthrough when pushed past his limit. Side note, I've always wondered if Gohan was some sort of, for lack of a better term, mutant. Something that has become a major plot point in the series is that Saiyans are inherently violent and the reason Broly is so powerful is because he is a sort of mutation. But when not in his Legendary Super Saiyan form (or Beserker Saiyan which I think is what Toriyama named it in the mainline series) he's rather calm and passive which remained largely true in canon with both Toriyama's take on Broly and Kale.

I wonder if Gohan is also a Berserker Saiyan since like Broly and Kale he's rather passive until he snaps and is so powerful that he outmatches pretty much most of the cast.

Winter wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 2:25 am I don't think it's that over the top, it's really just regular Super Saiyan with silver hair and red eyes along with a purple and red aura instead of the regular Yellow aura from Super Saiyan. I just think that, in a reboot, making it so GB is now SS2 would change the design to help it stand out as SS2 is treated as a different form altogether so why not lean into that.

The original narrative point can remain intact, having it where the Saiyans are trying to find a way to make SS1 more powerful and Gohan makes a breakthrough when pushed past his limit. Side note, I've always wondered if Gohan was some sort of, for lack of a better term, mutant. Something that has become a major plot point in the series is that Saiyans are inherently violent and the reason Broly is so powerful is because he is a sort of mutation. But when not in his Legendary Super Saiyan form (or Beserker Saiyan which I think is what Toriyama named it in the mainline series) he's rather calm and passive which remained largely true in canon with both Toriyama's take on Broly and Kale.

I wonder if Gohan is also a Berserker Saiyan since like Broly and Kale he's rather passive until he snaps and is so powerful that he outmatches pretty much most of the cast.

Its a bit more than just gray or silver hair. His hair much longer. Kinda like SSJ3 except it stands up like Daima version of SSJ3 Vegeta.

I'd rather keep the original SSJ2 form as is. Remember that up until SSJ3 the SSJ forms remained consistent. The hair didn't grow longer. There wasn't physical changes beyond more muscle and the gold/yellow hair.

But what I do like with Beast Gohan is that it's his own form after achieving SSJ, SSJ2, Ultimate Gohan. It's his own path.

You take away SSJ2 from Gohan, then you have to explain what is SSJ2 in the Buu Saga. So now you have two SSJ forms that both Goku achieves in a single saga. Buu saga is already a mess to begin with.

McAvoy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 3:06 am Its a bit more than just gray or silver hair. His hair much longer. Kinda like SSJ3 except it stands up like Daima version of SSJ3 Vegeta.

I'd rather keep the original SSJ2 form as is. Remember that up until SSJ3 the SSJ forms remained consistent. The hair didn't grow longer. There wasn't physical changes beyond more muscle and the gold/yellow hair.

But what I do like with Beast Gohan is that it's his own form after achieving SSJ, SSJ2, Ultimate Gohan. It's his own path.

You take away SSJ2 from Gohan, then you have to explain what is SSJ2 in the Buu Saga. So now you have two SSJ forms that both Goku achieves in a single saga. Buu saga is already a mess to begin with.

One problem there, this is Dragon Ball, nothing stays unique to a single character forever. Just look at the OG Super Saiyan, it was a big deal when Goku was able to transform into this back then and now every Saiyan can do it. Then came SS2 which, again, every Saiyan can pull off. The Saiyan God which we're told can only be done by one Saiyan at a time and can only be achieved by ritual only for both Goku and Vegeta being able to transform into it.

Even Super Saiyan 3 was said by Goku to be impossible to be maintained in a mortal body only for Gotenks to pull it off with no real issues (though at least this has only been able to be done by two characters in canon). Even the Legendary Super Saiyan was suppose to be unique to Broly only for Kale to be able to pull it off too (though like SS3 this is only done by two characters and one is a distaff counterpart to Broly from an alternate universe)

I love Dragon Ball, I love Toriyama and I love Gohan but Beast is just a cheap ripoff of Gohan's iconic SS2 transformation like I said before and one of the things I would want to see done with this hypothetical reboot would be to streamline the lore of the series. And while I would want to get into Super and GT I would rather pick and choose parts of the lore to use. And IMO I think it turning G Beast into would be better for the series as a whole.

But that's just me and I have no interest in dying on this particular hill as it is a rather minor point in the grand scheme of things.

But here's another point; what about the Saiyan God Forms? Personally I'd rather keep to it to only Red is the only Saiyan God form, keep it where only one Saiyan can use it at a time and drop Super Saiyan God Blue altogether (which I don't think has ever been given a proper introduction it just kinda showed up). Instead I would bring in SS4 and have it where it's not as powerful as SG but it is the most powerful form of the Saiyan race outside of the Berserker Saiyans.

Winter wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 3:40 am

McAvoy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 3:06 am Its a bit more than just gray or silver hair. His hair much longer. Kinda like SSJ3 except it stands up like Daima version of SSJ3 Vegeta.

I'd rather keep the original SSJ2 form as is. Remember that up until SSJ3 the SSJ forms remained consistent. The hair didn't grow longer. There wasn't physical changes beyond more muscle and the gold/yellow hair.

But what I do like with Beast Gohan is that it's his own form after achieving SSJ, SSJ2, Ultimate Gohan. It's his own path.

You take away SSJ2 from Gohan, then you have to explain what is SSJ2 in the Buu Saga. So now you have two SSJ forms that both Goku achieves in a single saga. Buu saga is already a mess to begin with.

One problem there, this is Dragon Ball, nothing stays unique to a single character forever. Just look at the OG Super Saiyan, it was a big deal when Goku was able to transform into this back then and now every Saiyan can do it. Then came SS2 which, again, every Saiyan can pull off. The Saiyan God which we're told can only be done by one Saiyan at a time and can only be achieved by ritual only for both Goku and Vegeta being able to transform into it.

Even Super Saiyan 3 was said by Goku to be impossible to be maintained in a mortal body only for Gotenks to pull it off with no real issues (though at least this has only been able to be done by two characters in canon). Even the Legendary Super Saiyan was suppose to be unique to Broly only for Kale to be able to pull it off too (though like SS3 this is only done by two characters and one is a distaff counterpart to Broly from an alternate universe)

I love Dragon Ball, I love Toriyama and I love Gohan but Beast is just a cheap ripoff of Gohan's iconic SS2 transformation like I said before and one of the things I would want to see done with this hypothetical reboot would be to streamline the lore of the series. And while I would want to get into Super and GT I would rather pick and choose parts of the lore to use. And IMO I think it turning G Beast into would be better for the series as a whole.

But that's just me and I have no interest in dying on this particular hill as it is a rather minor point in the grand scheme of things.

But here's another point; what about the Saiyan God Forms? Personally I'd rather keep to it to only Red is the only Saiyan God form, keep it where only one Saiyan can use it at a time and drop Super Saiyan God Blue altogether (which I don't think has ever been given a proper introduction it just kinda showed up). Instead I would bring in SS4 and have it where it's not as powerful as SG but it is the most powerful form of the Saiyan race outside of the Berserker Saiyans.

In DBZ no Saiyan form is unique only to one character with the exception of Gohan in his Ultimate Form. Which at the time, it was implied that Elder Kai pulled out Gohan's maximum potential and SSJ wouldn't do anything.

SSJ2 came from 7 years of training by both Vegeta and Goku. Ascended Super Saiyan. Gohan showed the path, they just followed it. Then they got stronger.

There is no hard line that Goku says it's not meant for a mortal body. That was just fan theory. It really comes down to this. Goku used it on borrowed time in the mortal realm. It drained that time. Made him tired afterwards. Then when he was mortal, he used that form and he knew his stamina was dipping so he needed Vegeta to fight to give him a minute to regain his stamina to fight again. Didn't happen. The form also was shown in Super during the Tournament of Power where Goku was fighting the female Saiyans. He couldn't maintain it at the time as Goku's stamina wasn't up yet since his first fight with Jiren. It takes alot to maintain.

What we know is that it has stamina limitations. SSJ3 Gotenks shouldn't have happened but again, Buu Saga was a mess.

Vegeta only went SSJ3 officially and his form is unique even if he is a child. His form also seems to be superior to Buu Saga's SSJ3 Goku form. Even then in Super, Vegeta didn't bother with SSJ3 once he became aware of SSJG.

In other words, the first three forms and even the Grade 3 form which was again shown by the lead female Saiyan against Goku initially in the Tournament of Power, are what you could as basic Saiyan forms that many Saiyans could take on.

Its possible that the Saiyans from Universe 6 could take on the God forms of SSJG and SSJ Blue.

The unique forms came from Super though. First with Trunks going Angry SSJ2 with that blue aura. Then Goku with Ultra Instinct and then Vegeta with Ultra Ego. Finally then Gohan in Beast Mode.

Yes we could include Broly and Kale as they have the Legendary Super Saiyans forms. One was a movie character that was copied for a gender swap thing for Tournament of Power and no one at the time when this happened that we were going to remake the Broly movie. Then you got the Broly movie for Super.

It was also that movie where fan theory ended if Vegeta could go Super Saiyan God.