Sfdebris.net

Lucas just said Jedi can have sex but never feel emotion about it. Creating an inconsistent bros and hoes culture that was for obvious reasons never shown anywhere in the old canon. Did Disney do something about it?

Lucas said "the dark side is pleasure". They are monks, the confusion stems from a joke Jon Stewart made. The celibacy is backed up by a scene in the rough draft. It's a PG/PG-13 franchise there's not going to be a lot made out of it.

The idea is that Jedi are not supposed to get attached, at least for the Prequel Jedi. So yeah, theoretically, sex without attachment, if they could manage it, would be fine. Though an entire order (which takes young children from their parents and indoctrinates them) which believes that having casual sex is fine but loving the person you have sex with is wrong is... deeply creepy, actually.

But that was never a thing for the new Jedi under Luke in the old EU, and it shouldn't be now. The saga as is shows the Jedi evolving away from that view towards recognizing some emotional attachments as necessary, and being stronger for it. So I'd hope to see Jedi having families and such in subsequent films. I hope Rey and Finn have loving sex and children in Episode IX. I hope Rey is Luke's daughter. I've never bought that "Light Side equals no emotion" or anything like that. I don't think the films, viewed in their entirety, convey that message.

I don't know where the "Dark Side is pleasure" line comes from. It sounds incredibly stupid, and if that's Lucas's view, I'd say he probably has some serious issues.

I could see that being the Prequel Jedi's interpretation, but its one that I would argue the OT somewhat contradicts.

The Romulan Republic wrote: I don't know where the "Dark Side is pleasure" line comes from. It sounds incredibly stupid, and if that's Lucas's view, I'd say he probably has some serious issues.

Its the ascetic ideal shared by most religions. Monks tend to be celibate.

youtu.be/44H1zWYubmM

Yeah, but I don't think that's a very healthy or realistic ideal. I mean, priests are supposed to be celibate.

A lot of them turned out to be child molesters, too.

The Romulan Republic wrote: A lot of them turned out to be child molesters, too.

I seriously hope this isn't applicable to the Jedi considering the whole taking new applicants as toddlers and having a very low cutoff age because that would bring fucking dark and twisted even for a series where one of the main characters talks about engaging in child murder in one film and explicitly shown about to engage in another bout in the next (good thing there was no Episode 3.5 as that would probably have actually shown him doing the deed!).

The Romulan Republic wrote:Yeah, but I don't think that's a very healthy or realistic ideal. I mean, priests are supposed to be celibate.

A lot of them turned out to be child molesters, too.

Well that's how the story operates, the Federation's conformist utopianism doesn't seem very healthy or realistic to a lot of people.

Although Jedi can leave the Order, you can't escape the Federation.

GandALF wrote:

The Romulan Republic wrote:Yeah, but I don't think that's a very healthy or realistic ideal. I mean, priests are supposed to be celibate.

A lot of them turned out to be child molesters, too.

Well that's how the story operates, the Federation's conformist utopianism doesn't seem very healthy or realistic to a lot of people.

Although Jedi can leave the Order, you can't escape the Federation.

I don't see what the Federation really has to do with this.

And, you know, the Federation doesn't have a giant Berlin Wall in space around it. You can... get on a ship and leave.

Dînadan wrote:

The Romulan Republic wrote: A lot of them turned out to be child molesters, too.

I seriously hope this isn't applicable to the Jedi considering the whole taking new applicants as toddlers and having a very low cutoff age because that would bring fucking dark and twisted even for a series where one of the main characters talks about engaging in child murder in one film and explicitly shown about to engage in another bout in the next (good thing there was no Episode 3.5 as that would probably have actually shown him doing the deed!).

I very much doubt that's the intent (though I can see the grimdark crowd going for that interpretation-ugh). But yes, it has some creepy vibes, especially when you compare it to certain real-world religious sects.

But even without... that, taking children from their parents as babies so that you can indoctrinate them, and they'll have no memory of life or family outside of your church, is pretty creepy any way you slice it. The Prequel-era Jedi Order sucked.

I'd actually go so far as to say that they were being arguably influenced by the Dark Side, without realizing it. After all, by their own teachings, fear leads to the Dark Side. So they avoided attachment... out of fear that it would lead to the Dark Side.

Part of what I love about the saga is the progression away from that, with Yoda seeming to realize somewhat the flaws in the old Order, him and Obi-wan allowing Luke and Leia to be raised by loving families, and Luke and his father's emotional attachment being what ultimately defeats the Sith. To me, the story ultimately repudiates the old Jedi (which I stress again are not synonymous with the Light Side), though I don't know if Lucas intended that, given his comments alluded to in this thread, and the fact that the films were made out of chronological order. But damn it, it works. Its quite a compelling story, actually. Its not just the story of the fall and redemption of the Skywalkers, but of the Jedi Order itself, and its the main reason why I consider Luke the greatest Jedi- because he understood that you could be a good Jedi, even a better Jedi, while having healthy emotional attachments.

Its also part of why I'm horribly afraid that they're going to destroy all that with bitter old man Luke in the next film.

Edit: Its also, again, part of why I kind of want Rey to be Luke's daughter, predictable as it would be. Show that Luke had a family, rather than cutting himself off from his emotions. Show how the loss of that family devastated him. And show how his love for his child, and his child's love for him, ultimately redeems him, as it did his father before him.

The Romulan Republic wrote:I don't see what the Federation really has to do with this.

My point is they are both their creator's ideas of good, you might not agree with it but that's how the story operates. It's not the Jedi you have a problem with, it's the story.

The Romulan Republic wrote:And, you know, the Federation doesn't have a giant Berlin Wall in space around it. You can... get on a ship and leave.

Isn't that what the Maquis tried?