General Batman discussion thread.

[The Romulan Republic]

Because we've got quite a lot of Batman-related reviews from multiple continuities on this site, and because Batman is my favourite super hero, and I've been thinking a lot about the characterization and themes of the Dark Knight, his world, and his associates and antagonists lately. So it seemed like a general Batman thread would be a good idea.

Any general discussion, critiques, or news regarding the Caped Crusader and his franchise are welcome here.

[Dînadan]

To get the ball rolling, who do people consider the definitive Batman? Note I don't mean in an argue over who is best and who is worse sense, I just mean, when you think of Batman, who do you imagine?


For me it's probably Kevin Conroy; whenever I read a Batman comic it's his voice I imagine when I read Batman's dialogue (similarly Mark Hamill is the Joker for me).

[The Romulan Republic]

I don't know that their is a definitive version of Batman (though I would argue that The Killing Joke is probably the definitive Joker, and in some ways the definitive Batman story- note that as you said, this is not the same as being the best Batman story). There are just so many versions of the character, with different strengths and weaknesses.

That said, the Batman from the No Man's Land novelization, or Affleck Batman if he killed fewer people, would probably come closest for me. But I'll allow that that's probably largely personal taste.

[SlackerinDeNile]

To get the ball rolling, who do people consider the definitive Batman? Note I don't mean in an argue over who is best and who is worse sense, I just mean, when you think of Batman, who do you imagine?


For me it's probably Kevin Conroy; whenever I read a Batman comic it's his voice I imagine when I read Batman's dialogue (similarly Mark Hamill is the Joker for me).

I really like Kevin Conroy's voice, but for me it's Michael Keaton. He may not be as handsome and suave as Christian Bale or Ben Affleck but he was the most intimidating and he was such a badass, when he put on the suit he was the Batman that everyone (who is into that kind of thing) wanted to be.

[Mercury01]

I really like Kevin Conroy's voice, but for me it's Michael Keaton. He may not be as handsome and suave as Christian Bale or Ben Affleck but he was the most intimidating and he was such a badass, when he put on the suit he was the Batman that everyone (who is into that kind of thing) wanted to be.

Pretty sure he was also the shortest.

[Darth Wedgius]

Combine Ben Affleck's Batman, Michael Keaton's Bruce Wayne, the incomparable poker face of Adam West, and Kevin Conroy's voice, and I think you've got the near-perfect Batman. And probably broken several laws of nature, but omelets, eggs and all.

For what it's worth, I've always found his supporting cast (including the villains) to be more interesting than the Caped Crusader himself. Then again, my favorite superhero is Krypto. I may not be getting into the stories the same way as most people.

[The Romulan Republic]

Most interesting characters for me are probably:

-Batman and Joker. They compliment each other, though I think that while the Joker has a very striking characterization, Batman's has more depth and nuance, usually.

-Batgirl and Harley.

-Jim Gordon.

Step outside the core Bat mythos, and bring in DC characters who cross over with Batman often, and I'd put Superman and Lex near the top of the list. I think they actually contribute a lot, potentially, to Batman stories.

[Dînadan]

Step outside the core Bat mythos, and bring in DC characters who cross over with Batman often, and I'd put Superman and Lex near the top of the list. I think they actually contribute a lot, potentially, to Batman stories.

Speaking of Superman and duality, it's always interesting in Superman-Batman team-ups where they dual narrate and the comparison between their two viewpoints on the same thing.

[FaxModem1]

My favorite version of Batman is the animated series version. I think they do everything about him right.

They deliver on both the fantasy of the character, as well as the tragedy of what drives him. Seeing him trying to fix the city that broke him. And he does so through the training, the education, the technology, and this enables him to save the day. Part of what I really love about the character is his travelling around the world to learn all the things one would need to know to be Batman, and they show that he acquired a lot of mentors over the years.

We see him using his brain to solve crimes, and it feels like a good detective story.

There's also Gotham itself. Not only is it a world that never really left Art Deco behind, but one that justifies a need for Batman in how it works. A place where the mafia, gangsters, corrupt officials, and such problems are the norm mean there needs to be a Batman, while also not forgetting that a person like Bruce Wayne can do more than dress up and beat up muggers to improve the city. Several episodes had Bruce contributing to such and such social cause or working company wise to make Gotham better. I think this crucial detail gets left out on a lot of interpretations of the character, and it cheapens him. Batfleck and Christopher Nolan's Batmans are impossible to imagine doing charity work unless it was to catch the Joker or some other bad guy. Merely look at Christian Bale's clenched teeth as he attends a fundraiser in The Dark Knight Rises to get a sense of how he views helping people in a non-costumed capacity.

And that brings me to the main strength of the TV series, the villains. Most of the episodes were from the villain's point of view, giving us their personal tragedy, and what made them who they are. It made them feel like real people, and not just bad guys Batman needed to stop. One need only think about the ending for Baby Doll to see how well they could execute it.

In my opinion, the best Batman has intelligence and compassion. Without that, he's a rich guy beating up poor people because of his issues.

[The Romulan Republic]

Step outside the core Bat mythos, and bring in DC characters who cross over with Batman often, and I'd put Superman and Lex near the top of the list. I think they actually contribute a lot, potentially, to Batman stories.

Speaking of Superman and duality, it's always interesting in Superman-Batman team-ups where they dual narrate and the comparison between their two viewpoints on the same thing.

I think Supes makes a natural foil for Batman, given that he is often gentler, less cynical, more idealistic... but its arguably easier for him to be, given his power and the fact that his life has generally been easier (living parents, even if not his birth parents, and a stable relationship- at least for some versions).

At the same time, there is a commonality between them that allows them to empathize with one another. Both have suffered personal loss, both have starred evil in the face, and both have dedicated their lives to trying to fight injustice and preserve the lives of others.

That they are probably the only two super heroes (and among a very few fictional characters period) who are on the same level, more or less, in terms of being cultural icons doesn't hurt, either.

Plus, there's the usual "brains vs. brawn" dichotomy. Not that Superman is stupid, of course, because he isn't. But he usually relies more on his powers, while Batman has to be cunning. Batman brings the strategizing, detective skills, street-level skills, and resources to compliment the powerhouse and beacon of justice that Superman is.

They just play off of each other really well, or at least they have the potential to do so if written well.

Edit: Regarding the previous post's comment on the need for Batman to have compassion and intelligence, not be just a thug, I agree.

This is why I think the no killing rule is so important, even if it wasn't originally part of the character, is often dropped for films, and is somewhat implausible. Because that is the hard line that separates Batman from even a lot ofthe more sympathetic of his villains, and shows that, while his parents' murder may have driven him to become Batman, its about more than just anger or pay back- that he responds to senseless death by trying to prevent more senseless death. Its absolutely key to the character, in my opinion.

Deleted the last bit for being in the wrong thread. Apologies.