KOTOR 2: Now With 20% More Content!

[Independent George]

Chuck references it in his Bioware reviews, including the opening segment of DA2. I bought it during a Steam sale years after the initial release, and then with the restored content mod last year - but I fully get why people loathed it when it was first sold. It was, frankly, a defective product that never should have seen the light of day. No game will work when you cut about 1/4 of the content to push out a release, but it's doubly worse when the entire game is based around the dialogue-heavy, character-driven narrative that Obsidian likes. It was a dumpster fire.

That said, even without the restored content mod, I preferred the characters and storyline (at least until the final act) even more than the original KOTOR. I liked the original, but it felt very much like a stock find-the-superweapon-and-blow-it-up space opera (which, to be fair, is a fair description of the original Star Wars). It does it extremely well, but it left me wanting more. KOTOR 2, meanwhile, addressed what it was like for muggles caught in the crossfire of a super-powered jihad. Even when one side is better than the other, it still sucks to be in the middle.

The restored content mod actually goes about 90% of the way in tying together the many disparate elements that were introduced, but never paid off, in the original game. In a lot of ways, it was less about saving the galaxy than it was about each character coming to terms with their pasts, so bringing back things like the Handmaiden's confrontation with her sisters (where, if you play light side, you have to avoid killing them), or your companions choosing to face down Kreia together on Malachor, or even HK-47 soloing the HK-50 factory, were all tied to the Exile's story. Beyond the fact that the original ending made no sense, or that the closing act was a boring, mindless slog through legions of mooks, the losing the cut content meant losing one the major unifying themes of the game.

[GandALF]

MFW we start debating Kreia:

To be honest I didn't really notice that much of difference between the restored and the original. Though I do like the "aftermath of the good vs evil fight" setting rather than another rehash of the OT.

[Madner Kami]

"Vanilla" KoToR2 works well enough, except for the final act. Until you are there, there are clearly loose ties everywhere, but nothing really breaks the deal until you hit Malachor and things just spiral out of control. The entire last act makes absolutely no sense. You have conversations and more conversations that relate somehow to conversations you never had and incidents that never happened, characters suddenly acting that never took an active part in the entirety of the game (Go-To and Remote being a prime example) and then that horrible end conversation and fight with Kreia that leads to an ending that makes no sense on either side of the Force's spectrum.

[bronnt]

There's a lot of gameplay improvements that made KOTOR 2 a better game, it's just the fact that the story was broken (largely on account of the ending being shredded so they could force the release out early)

-Crafting upgrade items for your weapons is very satisfying
-Each character has a unique trait
-All non-droids (except Canderous) were force-sensitive and could be made Jedi, which was satisfying
-Had no level cap, so you didn't just stop progressing at level 20

Plus, each mission felt way more involved. In KOTOR, it was land and then run around for a while to complete miniquests until you'd done everything on the planet. KOTOR II had more events creeping in that restricted certain party members, or forced you to split your party in different ways that helped make your group feel more dynamic.

The problem is, even though I liked the writing for the most part, I didn't necessarily like the way they built up toward the ending. You're running around as a light-side Jedi doing everything you can to help people, and the surviving Jedi Masters inexplicably come to the conclusion that you're an evil bastard who needs to die. During the game, Kreia has some interesting commentary on the morality systems that exist in games like this, but at the end, all that subtlety goes by the wayside. And her plan to "kill the Force," seems nonsensical based on any explanation of what the "Force" is.

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

I haven't played the mod and I do think KotOR 2 is a fine game, but to play devil's advocate, I think there are a couple of issues other than the final act. It might just be nostalgia goggles, but to me the locations in KotOR 1 are more varied and memorable. I always hated wandering around the empty Peragus Mining Facility.

[Madner Kami]

I haven't played the mod and I do think KotOR 2 is a fine game, but to play devil's advocate, I think there are a couple of issues other than the final act. It might just be nostalgia goggles, but to me the locations in KotOR 1 are more varied and memorable. I always hated wandering around the empty Peragus Mining Facility.

You really can feel the unfinishedness of the game, when you look at the locations, yeah. You can really feel that there's often so much room left for something that isn't in the game (anymore).

[SlackerinDeNile]

The restored content mods were finished some time ago I think. I played the game again with them installed about 6 years ago or so, might be time to give it another try.
I too enjoyed the sequel, although I'm not sure I prefer it to the first game, even though the first is a pretty standard high fantasy story it did a fantastic job of capturing the essence and wonder of the Star Wars universe. It was the epic, virtual adventure that everybody wanted to see done in a Star Wars video game (although I prefer the more action-oriented gameplay of the Jedi Knight\Dark Forces games personally).

As for KOTOR 2, I really like Obsidian and Chris Avalonn's writing in general, it's just a shame they often never get the time needed to finish their games properly. I have to be honest I'm not fond of most of the characters in it, Mira and the angry, emo wookie were too angsty and edgy for my tastes. The handmaiden was okay but the Miraluka woman (I've forgotten her name, sorry) didn't have that much depth to her. Kreia, Atton Rand, G0-T0, HK and Bao-Dur are all great though, they're fascinating, mature characters that take a while to really figure out which I liked. Most of the environments were drab and uninspiring compared to the first game, which is understandable given how rushed the whole thing is and it does kind of fit the tone of the game, but it's boring and kind of takes you out of the enjoyment and immersion factor of the game. In regards to the story as a whole, it's good, I like how the writers tried to deconstruct the simplistic duality of the force and morality in the Star Wars universe, but Kreia's master plan didn't make a lot of sense. I would have preferred it if the writers went with their original plan and have the Handmaiden leader be Darth Traya, with Kreia remaining a more complex and mysterious character throughout the entire story, rather than her turning out to be the main villain, which most of us saw coming, but didn't want to be the case.

[Karha of Honor]

There's a lot of gameplay improvements that made KOTOR 2 a better game, it's just the fact that the story was broken (largely on account of the ending being shredded so they could force the release out early)

-Crafting upgrade items for your weapons is very satisfying
-Each character has a unique trait
-All non-droids (except Canderous) were force-sensitive and could be made Jedi, which was satisfying
-Had no level cap, so you didn't just stop progressing at level 20

Plus, each mission felt way more involved. In KOTOR, it was land and then run around for a while to complete miniquests until you'd done everything on the planet. KOTOR II had more events creeping in that restricted certain party members, or forced you to split your party in different ways that helped make your group feel more dynamic.

The problem is, even though I liked the writing for the most part, I didn't necessarily like the way they built up toward the ending. You're running around as a light-side Jedi doing everything you can to help people, and the surviving Jedi Masters inexplicably come to the conclusion that you're an evil bastard who needs to die. During the game, Kreia has some interesting commentary on the morality systems that exist in games like this, but at the end, all that subtlety goes by the wayside. And her plan to "kill the Force," seems nonsensical based on any explanation of what the "Force" is.

And her plan to "kill the Force," seems nonsensical based on any explanation of what the "Force" is
It makes about as much sense as the endless galactic wars of the Sith and jedi.

[Fixer]

A while back I was considering a donation to Chuck to review KOTOR2 but ultimately decided against it. As much as there moments of greatness and complex characters everything ends with a whimper or a rushed, bare minimum conclusion with a million loose ends.

In the end I feel any retrospective on KOTOR2 would end up more of a "what could have been".

[GandALF]

You're all baiting me so I'm going to try to explain this one last time.

Obsidian likes to have a lot of postmodern themes in their games, particularly Planescape Torment, the Lonesome Road DLC and Pillars of Eternity. So its very likely that the kill the Force plan is based on the "God is dead" idea. (I am going to be simplifying here, hopefully it will make some kind of sense)

And we're talking philosophical God here not biblical God so don't go tipping your damn fedora at me

So postmodernism is the confusing idea that there is no objective truth or certainty. This is contrasted with modernism which asserts that there is truth but it is impossible for any one person to know the whole truth yet you can get 99% of it on a good day. So in postmodernism God is dead and in modernism God is alive but mysterious.

So if God is alive and you shoot someone in the face for eating a sandwich then the truth is that it is an objectively evil act and being taken in by the police is justice being carried out.

If God is dead however and you shoot someone in the face for eating sandwich, well you might feel guilty about it but that would only be because you have assigned an evil meaning to it, not because it is objectively evil. Alternatively you could assign a good meaning to it and it would be no less valid then the meaning the police and society have assigned to the justice that is done upon you.

In both cases you have free will, but in postmodernism you have existential freedom: truth is subjective and good and evil are what you decide them to be. However existential freedom is not the same as political liberty, political liberty is a modernist concept, it is living in accordance with your conscience and not what the government deems to be true. It is not a rejection of truth, it is an acknowledgement that truth is uncertain and differences of opinion have to be tolerated, it does not mean that all opinions are equally valid.

So in Lonesome Road Ulysses talks about the "Bull and the Bear" the symbols of the Legion and NCR because the two factions have assigned the meanings of good and evil to their beliefs like symbols, he doesn't think that either of them have any better claim to being to legitimate.

Which brings us to Star Wars, the Jedi and Sith are not like the Bull and the Bear, because of the Force, there is an inherent meaning to the universe, good and evil, truth and untruth. The Jedi beliefs are then true or at least very close to being true while the Sith beliefs are false. The Sith never achieve immortality or bring peace to the galaxy through domination while the Jedi bring about millennia long stretches of peace and justice.

Therefore if Kreia "kills the Force" she will then make the Jedi and Sith like the Bull and the Bear and she will be able to create her own truth. She wants existential freedom not liberty, she does not want to live according to conscience, she knows what the truth is and rejects it. She wants the freedom to say a duck is a cow and for that to be equally valid and to not submit to the "tyranny" of truth that decides that a duck is a duck.