They should be picking up on it soon.clearspira wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 7:48 pm''The Enterprise D spin off of Picard''BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 7:11 pm Discovery and Picard look to have run their course, while Strange New Worlds has had highly competent seasons, and I'm personally looking forward to the likes of the Enterprise D spinoff of Picard. I'm not sure where the Section 31 show is going, but I'm quite fascinated with what it's supposed to represent on an allegorical basis.
Are you sure that's a thing? The alternative is that Kurtzman does not know that ''Star Trek XII So Very Tired'' was never actually meant to be a thing. Although it would further my belief that we are indeed living a dystopian nightmare right now as more and more of The Simpsons comes true.
Star Trek after 8 years of disappointment and why I'm moving on
- BridgeConsoleMasher
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Re: Star Trek after 8 years of disappointment and why I'm moving on
Drop down and give me infinity.
- clearspira
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Re: Star Trek after 8 years of disappointment and why I'm moving on
I saw a random clip on Youtube today of a scene on DS9 and I was reminded of just how excellent the writing on this franchise used to be. It's easy to sit here and say ''New Trek sucks'' but sometimes you watch a scene that reminds you of exactly why it does. It was the scene during the final days of the Dominion War on Cardassia where Damar has just learned that the Dominion killed his family.
[Damar has just learned his entire family has been killed by the Dominion in retaliation for his rebellion.]
Damar: [taking in the news] They weren't a part of this rebellion. The Dominion knew that. The Founder knew that. Weyoun knew that. To kill her and my son. The casual brutality of it. The waste of life. What kind of state tolerates the murder of innocent women and children? What kind of people give those orders?
Kira Nerys: Yeah, Damar, what kind of people give those orders?
[Damar silently stares at Kira, but then, realizing Kira's words, he leaves.]
Kira: Oh, that was stupid.
Garak: Not at all. Damar has a certain... romanticism about the past. He could use a dose of cold water.
Kira: Well, I could have picked a better time.
Garak: If he's the man to lead a new Cardassia, if he's the man we all hope him to be, then the pain of this news made him more receptive to what you said, not less.
It is such a brilliant masterclass in ''show don't tell acting''. Kira, momentarily overwhelmed with the rage that she had seven years ago in ''Duet'', see's the perfect moment to score points. But within seconds she remembers that she is no longer season 1 Kira. She is season 7 Kira and feels deep shame, averting her gaze. Meanwhile, in just a few steps, Damar goes from disgust, to anger, to realising that Kira is right and walks off. All of this, without words.
And Garak's words - ''romanticism of the past.'' How resonant is that regarding 2025? And later in the same episode, we have the following exchange. Again, ''Rusot'' really sounds quite MAGA or Putin doesn't he? Between DS9 and Babylon 5, we were spoilt for intelligent, grown up political commentary back in the 90s. Sad that the warnings of these shows came to pass though.
[Rusot is a standoff with Kira and Garak]
Rusot: You're still a Cardassian, Garak. You're not going to kill one of your own people for a Bajoran woman!
Garak: [aiming a phaser at Rusot's head] How little you understand me.
Damar: Put your weapons down, both of you!
Rusot: You want her dead too, Damar, I know you do. But you're the leader of the rebellion, and don't want to kill someone wearing a Starfleet uniform. Let me do it for you! [an electronic alert bleeps]
Damar: They've finished installing the dampening weapon.
Kira: Then let's all get the hell out of here.
Rusot: Not you. [aims his rifle at Kira's head]
Garak: I'm still here, Rusot.
Rusot: Damar, shoot him. We can kill them both and keep the Breen weapon for ourselves. I believe in you, Damar. I know you're the right man to restore the Empire we so loyally served. The Empire we loved. Together we can lead our people to greatness again. Just aim and fire. [Damar aims and fires his disruptor, killing Rusot]
Damar: [to a shocked Kira and Garak] He was my friend. But his Cardassia's dead, and it won't be coming back.
[Damar has just learned his entire family has been killed by the Dominion in retaliation for his rebellion.]
Damar: [taking in the news] They weren't a part of this rebellion. The Dominion knew that. The Founder knew that. Weyoun knew that. To kill her and my son. The casual brutality of it. The waste of life. What kind of state tolerates the murder of innocent women and children? What kind of people give those orders?
Kira Nerys: Yeah, Damar, what kind of people give those orders?
[Damar silently stares at Kira, but then, realizing Kira's words, he leaves.]
Kira: Oh, that was stupid.
Garak: Not at all. Damar has a certain... romanticism about the past. He could use a dose of cold water.
Kira: Well, I could have picked a better time.
Garak: If he's the man to lead a new Cardassia, if he's the man we all hope him to be, then the pain of this news made him more receptive to what you said, not less.
It is such a brilliant masterclass in ''show don't tell acting''. Kira, momentarily overwhelmed with the rage that she had seven years ago in ''Duet'', see's the perfect moment to score points. But within seconds she remembers that she is no longer season 1 Kira. She is season 7 Kira and feels deep shame, averting her gaze. Meanwhile, in just a few steps, Damar goes from disgust, to anger, to realising that Kira is right and walks off. All of this, without words.
And Garak's words - ''romanticism of the past.'' How resonant is that regarding 2025? And later in the same episode, we have the following exchange. Again, ''Rusot'' really sounds quite MAGA or Putin doesn't he? Between DS9 and Babylon 5, we were spoilt for intelligent, grown up political commentary back in the 90s. Sad that the warnings of these shows came to pass though.
[Rusot is a standoff with Kira and Garak]
Rusot: You're still a Cardassian, Garak. You're not going to kill one of your own people for a Bajoran woman!
Garak: [aiming a phaser at Rusot's head] How little you understand me.
Damar: Put your weapons down, both of you!
Rusot: You want her dead too, Damar, I know you do. But you're the leader of the rebellion, and don't want to kill someone wearing a Starfleet uniform. Let me do it for you! [an electronic alert bleeps]
Damar: They've finished installing the dampening weapon.
Kira: Then let's all get the hell out of here.
Rusot: Not you. [aims his rifle at Kira's head]
Garak: I'm still here, Rusot.
Rusot: Damar, shoot him. We can kill them both and keep the Breen weapon for ourselves. I believe in you, Damar. I know you're the right man to restore the Empire we so loyally served. The Empire we loved. Together we can lead our people to greatness again. Just aim and fire. [Damar aims and fires his disruptor, killing Rusot]
Damar: [to a shocked Kira and Garak] He was my friend. But his Cardassia's dead, and it won't be coming back.
Re: Star Trek after 8 years of disappointment and why I'm moving on
OK. Here is the thing about old Trek and new Trek. At its base. Old Trek had an average of 26 episodes for it to make episodes about certain characters. Flesh them out. DS9 was well know for this.
So with 26 episodes a season, something that DS9 did very well is flesh out not only the main characters but also the side ones as well.
Think about it, the scene clearspira just quoted. We had nearly a whole season's growth from Kira, we know all about Cardassian crimes against Bajor. We saw Damar from a henchmen of Dukat to a drunken fool to a rebellion leader. Plus Garak in all his glory as well.
That is why it made for an excellent scene. 26 episodes of that sort of character development. Nevermind the writing. Yes 26 episodes would strain many writers rooms.
Look at Voyager. It had 26 episode seasons. Had interesting episodes but fumbled the ball too many times. I just think DS9 and TNG was lightning in a bottle as far as writing.
Discovery just had an issue of self identity. Some big bad that needed to be solved at the end of the season. This could be done but writing wasn't there. I wonder if SNW would suffer if they had to create a 26 episode season as well.
IMO, it doesn't help to have Kurtzman who I think has no idea what Star Trek is all about.
So with 26 episodes a season, something that DS9 did very well is flesh out not only the main characters but also the side ones as well.
Think about it, the scene clearspira just quoted. We had nearly a whole season's growth from Kira, we know all about Cardassian crimes against Bajor. We saw Damar from a henchmen of Dukat to a drunken fool to a rebellion leader. Plus Garak in all his glory as well.
That is why it made for an excellent scene. 26 episodes of that sort of character development. Nevermind the writing. Yes 26 episodes would strain many writers rooms.
Look at Voyager. It had 26 episode seasons. Had interesting episodes but fumbled the ball too many times. I just think DS9 and TNG was lightning in a bottle as far as writing.
Discovery just had an issue of self identity. Some big bad that needed to be solved at the end of the season. This could be done but writing wasn't there. I wonder if SNW would suffer if they had to create a 26 episode season as well.
IMO, it doesn't help to have Kurtzman who I think has no idea what Star Trek is all about.
I got nothing to say here.