The 2020 Comic book crash

[JoeThree]

I think you guys missed my point. I was saying the 90's sucked, but at least it didn't kill the comic book industry like these Progressive rags that're being put out.

There are more units being sold now than there were in the wake of the crash. Additionally the practices of the dark age made it significantly more difficult for the public at large to get into comics both due to the explosion of titles and the total focus on the direct market.

Are more comics being sold now than in the 90's?

Not more than the peak, but more than during the crash. Last year 83 million comics were sold in the US, that's after several years of decline, but it's also more than any given year from 1999 to 2006.

So you're telling me things sold better in the Dark Age of comics, then dropped off, but now comics are selling alright. Can you tell me which ones are doing well? Is it still the same ones by DC, Marvel, and Image?

It's similar titles plus the expansion of the number of titles due to a growing number of mid tier studios like Boom and IDW.

Ah, interesting.

[ProfessorDetective]

I think you guys missed my point. I was saying the 90's sucked, but at least it didn't kill the comic book industry like these Progressive rags that're being put out.

There are more units being sold now than there were in the wake of the crash. Additionally the practices of the dark age made it significantly more difficult for the public at large to get into comics both due to the explosion of titles and the total focus on the direct market.

Are more comics being sold now than in the 90's?

Not more than the peak, but more than during the crash. Last year 83 million comics were sold in the US, that's after several years of decline, but it's also more than any given year from 1999 to 2006.

So you're telling me things sold better in the Dark Age of comics, then dropped off, but now comics are selling alright. Can you tell me which ones are doing well? Is it still the same ones by DC, Marvel, and Image?

It's similar titles plus the expansion of the number of titles due to a growing number of mid tier studios like Boom and IDW.

Ah, interesting.

Of course, a lot of that Is from them having big licenses. IDW has X-Files, TMNT, Ghostbusters (OG, 2016, and ALL of the cartoons), Donald Duck (funnily enough. You'd think Marvel'd be doing Disney Cartoon comics), and Hasbro (who have a shared universe, right now). While Boom's got Cartoon Network (again, you'd think DC would have those), Firefly, Buffy, the Jim Henson Movies, and a few others.

Not that their original stories are BAD, but which ones probably sell best?

[Thebestoftherest]

Yeah, I don't buy the SJW are killing comics. Maybe the fact that the events are so often, so expensive, so confusing and some exist just to piss off their costumers. (Captain America agent of Hydra anyone) Is what killing them, that and having any stores for one thing is dying.

[JoeThree]

Yeah, I don't buy the SJW are killing comics. Maybe the fact that the events are so often, so expensive, so confusing and some exist just to piss off their costumers. (Captain America agent of Hydra anyone) Is what killing them, that and having any stores for one thing is dying.

That's the thing, pissing off the customer is PART of the SJW playbook. Because they're better than us. Much better. We're garbage.

[Thebestoftherest]

Yeah, having Ice man be gay is what destroying comics. Not turning characters people grew up with and love into murderers for no reason. (Heroes in crisis.)

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

You gotta admit that that was a pretty big blow to the brigadier carrier ship.

[Draco Dracul]

Yeah, I don't buy the SJW are killing comics. Maybe the fact that the events are so often, so expensive, so confusing and some exist just to piss off their costumers. (Captain America agent of Hydra anyone) Is what killing them, that and having any stores for one thing is dying.

That's something I like about the YA graphic novels that DC is putting out right now, they are self contained, and have a decent price point. Also Shadow of Batgirl is just really really good and I'd love to see a second volume.

You gotta admit that that was a pretty big blow to the brigadier carrier ship.

Iceman or Heroes in Crisis? Because while the former was really clunky and misguided I wouldn't call it particularly important because Iceman, like Angel seems to only really be around because he was one of the first 5 Xmen, the later squandered a huge amount of good will from rebirth and is exactly the kind of terrible event comic that turned people away from comics.

[GreyICE]

The Dark Age was driven by sales to wannabe collectors. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's also worth noting that this is entirely the collapse of Diamond Comics. Diamond Comics hasn't really been the majority of the comic book market for years and years. Ever since the rise of manga in the 90s, Diamond Comics has been suffering.

You can see the market has skyrocketed, while Diamond Comics has remained flat: https://www.comichron.com/yearlycomicssales.html

The problem is that diamond is still driving Marvel and DC's decisions (combined with movies) which has had a disasterous effect on overall quality. It's just more attractive for good talent to work in the indie world with the amount of editorial control and meddling the big two do. And with diamond revenues remaining so flat, they just really don't have the ability to out-pay the indies (unless they just admitted that comics were a loss leader for movies/toys/tv shows and started running in the red)

[clearspira]

Yeah, having Ice man be gay is what destroying comics. Not turning characters people grew up with and love into murderers for no reason. (Heroes in crisis.)

Fyi, I read those gay Iceman comics, and I can tell your firsthand why they sucked.

1) Jean Grey literally looked into his mind and publicly outed him without permission, which...

2) Has led to the conspiracy theory that she basically mind raped him at the same time, because...

3) Iceman was NEVER gay before that. Remember, in comic books we have thought balloons and narrators. We know exactly what a character is thinking at all times. They picked a character with one of the longest histories in Marvel comics and tried to retcon something that could not possibly be true because we have had sixty(?) years of being able to read his thoughts.

4) And besides the logical problems, there were the stories themselves. It is no exaggeration at all to say that Bobby's entire character motivation from that point on was ''he's gay''. Not ''he is the man he always was - just now he's gay'', it was ''Bobby's first gay dance. Bobby's first gay crush. Bobby's first gay vacation. Bobby's first gay dinner. Bobby's first homophobic experience.''

Those books were boring as f-k because Iceman was now boring as f-k. But due to the day and age we live in, ''these books are boring as f-k'' apparently translates to ''you hate gays''.

[GreyICE]

Ice Man being gay and deeply in the closet actually works. The way he was written, he had this awkward habit of casually flirting with every woman on the team, while they were in relationships, in the same room, anything. That, combined with how immensely dysfunctional his few relationships actually were, makes sense for him being deep in the closet. It makes double sense when we consider that avoidance is a huge character trait of Bobby Drake - he's an Omega level mutant who runs from his powers and has many times commented that he almost never uses his full power, because he doesn't want to be like that, that he doesn't want the responsibility and doesn't think he should have that power. I mean you're talking someone who could go toe-to-toe with Magneto at full power (and smart money would be on Drake), and his usual plan is to throw snowballs and act goofy.

So could a good writer make it work? Hell yeah. It wouldn't even be very difficult. Give it to that writer for a solo run, 12-issue miniseries like The Visions (a FANTASTIC series). Bam, done, easy-peasy. Instead they handled it so bad it fucking hurts. Because OF COURSE they did. Marvel really hasn't evolved since the Rawhide Kid.