Anicent Chinese secret

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Why would 2000 years ago not be considered ancient? Maybe it means classical because the roman empire was around?

Speaking erroneously, I considered ancient to be more of a ghost town attribute. The pre-history condition is somewhat consistent with what I thought, but I had no specific understanding of such periods.

A temple covered by foliage in Congo? Ancient. Birth of the most popular single figure in the world that the world still worships today is a little different.

[TGLS]

When should we consider something "ancient" anyway? A thousand years old? That would mean William the Conqueror's invasion of England would be set to be "officially Ancient" in just 45 years. Do we have a term for something centuries old but not "ancient"?

Historians call the period Post-Classical, or to use a less fashionable term, the Middle Ages. Right now, basically historians divide history in five or six parts:
1) Prehistory (i.e. Everything before writing)
2) Ancient (i.e. Starting from Sumeria and earliest written documents)
3) Post-Classical (i.e. Starting from a date between the fall of West Rome and the Rise of Charlemagne, in Europe)
4) Early Modern (i.e. Starting from a date between the fall of Constantinople and the beginning of the Age of Discovery)
5) Late Modern (i.e. Starting from a date between the Industrial Revolution and the French Revolution)
6) Contemporary (i.e. Starting from a date between WW1 and the end of WW2)

Some merge 5 and 6 together, and where post-classical begins is a bit tricky because it varies a lot more widely because most regions didn't have that period of history seriously impacted by Europeans showing up.

Is this the proper catalogue? I ask because the section of Post-Classical but not a Classical seems odd. Or did Classical get nixed like Pluto's planethood?

The original list was this:
1) early civilization
2) classical societies
3) post-classical
4) early modern
5) long nineteenth century
6) contemporary or modern era

And here's a second list:
1) Ancient (Beginning of writing to Late Antiquity)
2) Post-Classical (Late Antiquity to Columbus)
3) Modern (Columbus to Now)

And I basically mashed the two together to show where ancient history fits relative to everything else.

Post-Classical used to be called the "Middle Ages" or the "Dark Ages" but that confuses the issue with preconceptions about what the middle ages were.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Where does Atlantis fit in?

Also Vandal Savage is from Sumer.

[McAvoy]

I suppose if you use it as a descriptive word like 'ancient ruins' as opposed to an actual time frame, you could argue it could be hundreds of years ago to a thousand or more. Depending on how you feel about the usage. No one will call the Statue of Liberty ancient or anything that survived the Revolutionary War as ancient. But you could easily call Roman ruins as ancient. Woukd you consider the time frame of Henry VIII as ancient. That is the time of Di Vinci and Michelangelo, would their works be considered ancient? Is Hadrian's Wall ancient?

[TGLS]

I suppose if you use it as a descriptive word like 'ancient ruins' as opposed to an actual time frame, you could argue it could be hundreds of years ago to a thousand or more.

Or you could go fully Valleyan and call something that happened 10 years ago ancient history.

But you could easily call Roman ruins as ancient. ... Is Hadrian's Wall ancient?

OK, this bugs me inordinately. Hadrian's Wall is a Roman ruin.

[McAvoy]

I suppose if you use it as a descriptive word like 'ancient ruins' as opposed to an actual time frame, you could argue it could be hundreds of years ago to a thousand or more.

Or you could go fully Valleyan and call something that happened 10 years ago ancient history.

But you could easily call Roman ruins as ancient. ... Is Hadrian's Wall ancient?

OK, this bugs me inordinately. Hadrian's Wall is a Roman ruin.

It is since it is literally named after a Roman Emperor. Just included that to see if anyone catched it.

Valleyan? More like two years.

[Madner Kami]

Thank you for the info. So by those classifications that would make the birth and life of Muhammed, the prophet of Islam, postclassical but not ancient? Huh, for some reason I always though the birth of Islam was one the eras we could call "ancient".

Muhammad was born in 570 CE and died on June 8th, 632 CE. He's closer in time to Charlemagne, than he is to Caesar, even being closer to the First Crusade, than he is to the establishment of the principate under Augustus. Islam, though it may have existed in a very regional form before Muhammad, is quintessentially medieval, given the explosive islamic expansion is basically what ended the "classic" rivalry between Ancient Rome (or Byzantium by this point in time) and their ancient rival Persia, so it's not even just a european thing.

I've never really considered the birth of christ to be ancient and was surprised to learn that Islam was born out of Christianity.

Islam isn't "born out of Christianity". Islam acknowledges Jesus as a messiah, but Islam is fundamentally opposing basic tennets of Christianity, even at the time of Muhammad/Islam's creation. Islam is more a derivation of jewish beliefs, stretched over "native" arabic religions with a spicing of christian influences.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Thank you for the info. So by those classifications that would make the birth and life of Muhammed, the prophet of Islam, postclassical but not ancient? Huh, for some reason I always though the birth of Islam was one the eras we could call "ancient".

Muhammad was born in 570 CE and died on June 8th, 632 CE. He's closer in time to Charlemagne, than he is to Caesar, even being closer to the First Crusade, than he is to the establishment of the principate under Augustus. Islam, though it may have existed in a very regional form before Muhammad, is quintessentially medieval, given the explosive islamic expansion is basically what ended the "classic" rivalry between Ancient Rome (or Byzantium by this point in time) and their ancient rival Persia, so it's not even just a european thing.

I've never really considered the birth of christ to be ancient and was surprised to learn that Islam was born out of Christianity.

Islam isn't "born out of Christianity". Islam acknowledges Jesus as a messiah, but Islam is fundamentally opposing basic tennets of Christianity, even at the time of Muhammad/Islam's creation. Islam is more a derivation of jewish beliefs, stretched over "native" arabic religions with a spicing of christian influences.

Close enough.