Deep Space Nine help...

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SlackerinDeNile
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Re: Deep Space Nine help...

Post by SlackerinDeNile »

Darth Wedgius wrote:I'm going to recommend "Shadows and Symbols," where Worf, O'Brien, Quark, and Bashir attack a Dominion shipyard to get Jadzia into Stov-o-kor (or however it's spelled), Sisko searches for an orb, and Colonel Kira has a face-off with the Romulans over some plasma torpedoes. It loses some impact without the viewer having gotten to know Jadzia, but, I think it's easy enough to pick up that she and Worf were close, she's dead (well, dead-ish) and several other male characters had a thing for her. There's action, heart (Worf apologizes, and I think Dorn pulls it off really well), and dramatic tension (Kira facing off against the Romulans).

The Visitor is my second-favorite episode of Trek, after Best of Both Worlds. But I think it loses a lot of impact if you haven't gotten to see the Siskos interact a fair amount.
Shadows and Symbols spoils a lot of the overall story and myth arc so I'd put that off until later.
I agree with you on the Visitor though.

Personally Star Trek DS9, while maybe not quite being my favourite Star Trek show, is one of my favourite TV Shows of all time and an excellent example of how Sci-Fi and Space Opera can be done in a television format. I would recommend watching the story from the very beginning and avoiding all spoilers as I did enjoy a lot of the myth arc and characterisation throughout the show. Watch the pilot, then skip most of seasons 1 and 2, particularly episodes like 'The Passenger' and 'Move Along home' as those episodes suck and add nothing to the show.
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Paul Walker
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Re: Deep Space Nine help...

Post by Paul Walker »

It could be that he interpreted Sisko's ship exploding, and subsequent upset with Picard, as being the Enterprise.

Also, The Search was something of a soft reboot for DS9, adding in the Defiant and bringing the Dominion into focus (only for Way of the Warrior to do that again later).

As for episodes, I have five suggestions:

Way of the Warrior - whilst it adds a lot of items, as a soft reboot, it fills in most of the needed information for you. Worf (while Klingon) was raised by humans, and the advice Jadzia gives isn't overtly immersed in understanding the culture.
Civil Defence - a bottle show romp which introduces the lead villain for the shows run, and avoids any awkward spoilers.
Explorers - DS9 stood out from the other shows in its ability to create more complex character dynamics. This one also features Dukat, but in a much more positive light than he is normally remembered.
Rules of Engagement - A charachter episode for Worf, in the midst of hostilities with the Klingons, but shows that the honorable warrior race isn't above playing politics.
The Sound of Her Voice - This might seem like an odd choice. It spends a lot of time discussing the main plot points of the show, giving a feel of the war, of how it affects people over time, showing that the show is mature in its handling of characters and relationships.

Anyway, I hope your friend enjoys whatever episode you choose :)
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FakeGeekGirl
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Re: Deep Space Nine help...

Post by FakeGeekGirl »

He might be referring to one of Sisko's prophet visions. He does flashback to the destruction of the Saratoga and some other things that could have been mistaken for destruction of the Enterprise during Emissary.

Are they TOS fans? The first episode I ever saw (and the only one I saw for a long time) was Trials and Tribbleations. It's a good lead-in for any TOS fan since it's such a loving tribute and doesn't require much continuity.

Barring that, I would start with Way of the Warrior. There is some continuity to it but not to the level I think someone would be locked out, and it's action packed and involves everyone's favorite Klingon (besides Martok).
TorroesPrime
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Re: Deep Space Nine help...

Post by TorroesPrime »

Darth Wedgius wrote:I'm going to recommend "Shadows and Symbols," where Worf, O'Brien, Quark, and Bashir attack a Dominion shipyard to get Jadzia into Stov-o-kor (or however it's spelled), Sisko searches for an orb, and Colonel Kira has a face-off with the Romulans over some plasma torpedoes. It loses some impact without the viewer having gotten to know Jadzia, but, I think it's easy enough to pick up that she and Worf were close, she's dead (well, dead-ish) and several other male characters had a thing for her. There's action, heart (Worf apologizes, and I think Dorn pulls it off really well), and dramatic tension (Kira facing off against the Romulans).

The Visitor is my second-favorite episode of Trek, after Best of Both Worlds. But I think it loses a lot of impact if you haven't gotten to see the Siskos interact a fair amount.
The problem is the amount of assumed knowledge the episode thinks the viewer has. Like who is Jadzia? Who is the Dominon? What are the Cardasians doing there? Who is this scrawny kid (Bashir)? Who's the Ferengeri? Why are they Fighting the Dominon? etc etc. I absolutely agree it's a great episode, but it's strength lies so much on information that has been built up over the prior 5 years.

The Visitor I feel like would be received as a cheap bate and switch. Which it's a great episode it never actually happens in the final time line of DS9.
TorroesPrime
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Re: Deep Space Nine help...

Post by TorroesPrime »

Paul Walker wrote: Anyway, I hope your friend enjoys whatever episode you choose :)
Actually he just handed me the perfect hook. See he just finished watching Decent (with Lore and the Borg). And he texted me basically referencing the presentational problems with the episode and how there isn't any real followup to the reality that with a little emotional programming Data can be compromised. He made the comment that the last scene with Geordi really should have gone differently and there should be a lot of fall out from all of it, give Data more of a long term story arc like they had done with Worf.

I sent back a response of: Haha, you think they did long term story with Worf in TNG? Oh my dear naive little child. Go watch DS9.

He responded back asking if they used Worf in DS9 better then they did in TNG, and I confirmed that they make great use of many characters to build ongoing stories that span 2 and 3 seasons rather then the TNG method of 2-3 episodes related to a given plot for a given character in a season.

His response: Okay, I'll watch DS9 after I finish TNG.
ScreamingDoom
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Re: Deep Space Nine help...

Post by ScreamingDoom »

I'd also suggest "Civil Defence". It's a nice bottle show and showcases a lot of the characters, including Gul Dukat. Seeing him be a smarmy jerk yet still trying to smooze Kira while called out on it by everyone's favorite tailor is great.
TorroesPrime
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Re: Deep Space Nine help...

Post by TorroesPrime »

Okay, it's taken WAAAAAAAAAAY longer than it really should have but I finally got said friend to sit down and watch what I decided to use as the "Acid test" episode. He and his girlfriend had made it through like 10 or 12 episodes between last October and March of this year. They weren't thrilled by what they saw, citing how hostile Kira was, how aggressive Sisko has been, how bland Bashir was, how confusing Dax is, and how pointless O'brien has been.

As I've said I think DS9 is the best of the Next Gen era shows. However, I am also objective about it and recognize that many of those points raised, particularly in comparison seasons 5, 6 and 7 of TNG, are accurate. Sisko is aggressive early in DS9 compared to the later seasons of TNG, and Kira is very hostile. I mean hell, she straight up said to Sisko she doesn't think the federation, and by extension Sisko himself, has any business being there. The writers really didn't get a good handle on what to do with Dax until around season 4 or so, and so forth. These aren't invalid criticisms, in the context of TNG season 5-7. But I also feel that much of these early rough edges contribute to the development of the characters throughout the series.

So I went through the entire series and tried to find an episode that showed the growth of one or more of the major characters, and didn't require the viewer to know much in terms of backstory to understand the episode. Ultimately I set on the episode Duet as it shows Kira coming to terms with the reality of the Cardassian culture, Sisko himself being in a near-impossible position as he struggles to adhere to Federation principles while working with the Bajorians without falling into the trap of using authority as a bludgeon, while also showing the places that Deep Space Nine was willing to go in terms of story exploration, without turning it into a farce or a ham-fisted metaphor that loses its relevance.

I had a bunch of friends over for movies and burgers and in the process, I laid out. We were going to watch 1 episode of DS9. If after watching it, Andy (the friend in question) decided that DS9 wasn't for him, that was the last I would speak of it. The three of us who already know DS9 agreed to not talk about anything that hadn't occurred in the series yet, and we all agreed to the situation. We went through the entire episode with a couple minor breaks where Andy asked about why Sisko or Kira were acting the way they were, or to emphasize some aspect of Marritza.

So end result? We got to the end of the episode, asked Andy his thoughts. He thought for a long moment before finally saying: Okay, I'm sold. I see the light at the end of the tunnel.

It was all I could do to suggest something else to watch next to avoid making some snarky comment about that light being the light for the stairs cause you going down.
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