Fascism is Heroarchy

[CharlesPhipps]

The argument agaisnt it is that it made him a Martyr.

I mean, their original plan was, "Be the figurehead ruler and live your life in shocking luxury."

And THEN he decided to murder them all.

[MithrandirOlorin]

I'm not interesting in debating what he deserves, Capital Punishment is wrong PEIORD, I feel that way even about Nuremberg.

[clearspira]

It’s NEVER okay to assassinate someone.

To save the life of another.

Just because the state can do it doesn’t mean you should too.

How do you feel about vigilantes killing people or is it only when the government doing it that makes it acceptable? That does feed back into the superhero discussion after all. Because under this logic, James Bond hunting down and killing Blofeld to save the world fine, the Punisher hunting down and killing Blofeld to save the world wrong, even though the outcome is exactly the same. Is the only thing making this acceptable an old man in London giving Bond the all-clear to do it?

I think also what I am asking here is, how do you define assassination? What is the dividing line between an assassin and a normal killer?

[TGLS]

How do you feel about vigilantes killing people or is it only when the government doing it that makes it acceptable? That does feed back into the superhero discussion after all. Because under this logic, James Bond hunting down and killing Blofeld to save the world fine, the Punisher hunting down and killing Blofeld to save the world wrong, even though the outcome is exactly the same. Is the only thing making this acceptable an old man in London giving Bond the all-clear to do it?

Well for one thing it's a lot more likely that James Bond isn't gunning down Blofeld because he hates Poles than when The Punisher does it.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Racism’s bad, mmmkay.

Sorry. South Park joke.

[CharlesPhipps]

How do you feel about vigilantes killing people or is it only when the government doing it that makes it acceptable? That does feed back into the superhero discussion after all. Because under this logic, James Bond hunting down and killing Blofeld to save the world fine, the Punisher hunting down and killing Blofeld to save the world wrong, even though the outcome is exactly the same. Is the only thing making this acceptable an old man in London giving Bond the all-clear to do it?

I think also what I am asking here is, how do you define assassination? What is the dividing line between an assassin and a normal killer?

An assassin working for a state is a soldier.

An assassin working for himself is a murderer.

An assassin working for the people is a revolutionary.

An assassin who kills someone everyone hates is a freedom fighter.

An assassin who kills someone people like is a terrorist.

And none of this actually matters save perception.

[CharlesPhipps]

Well for one thing it's a lot more likely that James Bond isn't gunning down Blofeld because he hates Poles than when The Punisher does it.

Marvel is sort of stuck with Frank Castle because a lot of the writers would really just like him to be a racist fascist asshole but he's incredibly marketable and popular.

So you get weird stories like Frank Castle joining Hydra or attacking migrants while mind controlled.

Even though I sincerely doubt Frank Castle is a Nazi.

He's bad enough as he is that you don't need to throw that in.

[clearspira]

Well for one thing it's a lot more likely that James Bond isn't gunning down Blofeld because he hates Poles than when The Punisher does it.

Marvel is sort of stuck with Frank Castle because a lot of the writers would really just like him to be a racist fascist asshole but he's incredibly marketable and popular.

So you get weird stories like Frank Castle joining Hydra or attacking migrants while mind controlled.

Even though I sincerely doubt Frank Castle is a Nazi.

He's bad enough as he is that you don't need to throw that in.

I think Frank Castle is at his best when he's just ''Batman with guns.''

All of this other stuff is what people refer to when they say ''keep politics out of comics.''

[hammerofglass]

Well for one thing it's a lot more likely that James Bond isn't gunning down Blofeld because he hates Poles than when The Punisher does it.

Marvel is sort of stuck with Frank Castle because a lot of the writers would really just like him to be a racist fascist asshole but he's incredibly marketable and popular.

So you get weird stories like Frank Castle joining Hydra or attacking migrants while mind controlled.

Even though I sincerely doubt Frank Castle is a Nazi.

He's bad enough as he is that you don't need to throw that in.

I think Frank Castle is at his best when he's just ''Batman with guns.''

All of this other stuff is what people refer to when they say ''keep politics out of comics.''

In my experience the "keep politics out of comics" people are the same people as have a "thin blue line" punisher logo on their car.

[CmdrKing]

It’s always gonna be fundamentally incoherent at best because Frank’s core is “the system failed my family so it’s up to me to take the fight to organized crime”, which is a deeply political statement. Like not even in an “all art is at least a little political because it’s communicating with the reader and that assumes some political common ground”, that’s just literally a commentary on specific aspects of the political system.

Of course the best use of the Punisher today would be to take on the biggest organized crime rings, the police, but marvel isn’t gonna have the balls to have him gun down the NYPD en masse