Fascism is Heroarchy

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Of course the best use of the Punisher today would be to take on the biggest organized crime rings, the police, but marvel isn’t gonna have the balls to have him gun down the NYPD en masse

Funny you mention just because Jon Berenthal from Netflix Punisher played in an HBO mini-series about the Baltimore police department and their hand in police brutality.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

It’s NEVER okay to assassinate someone.

To save the life of another.

Just because the state can do it doesn’t mean you should too.

How do you feel about vigilantes killing people or is it only when the government doing it that makes it acceptable? That does feed back into the superhero discussion after all. Because under this logic, James Bond hunting down and killing Blofeld to save the world fine, the Punisher hunting down and killing Blofeld to save the world wrong, even though the outcome is exactly the same. Is the only thing making this acceptable an old man in London giving Bond the all-clear to do it?

I think also what I am asking here is, how do you define assassination? What is the dividing line between an assassin and a normal killer?

Originally I didn’t really care about the particular act of killing in a story. It was kind of like recognizing self defense manslaughter, but for any happenstance of escalating conflict. And to be fair, this generally rings true for more vulnerable people against people of threatening stature, in story and in real life. Now though I basically understand the imperative to do only as much is necessary to fully stifle the issue — taking a life invariably being much more than that in any case. At least as far as justifiable punishment imho.

I have equal amounts of respect for shows that either sport the no-killing rule and shows that embrace mortality, but it’s much more for the juxtaposition between the two standpoints rather than a direct support for one or the other. And really though I support the no killing rule for itself obviously, just the matter of when it conflicts.

I think states have a hard time justifying murder on a principle level, as far as constitutional frameworks and consistent government applies. Just on a sociopolitical level I recognize libertarian values of individualism in our culture, and dichotomies of collective interests in opposition to that are weighted circumstances as well (in which case the punisher is more about that than any specific political allegory for the premise of the show [particular stories being their own thing]).

[CharlesPhipps]

It’s always gonna be fundamentally incoherent at best because Frank’s core is “the system failed my family so it’s up to me to take the fight to organized crime”, which is a deeply political statement. Like not even in an “all art is at least a little political because it’s communicating with the reader and that assumes some political common ground”, that’s just literally a commentary on specific aspects of the political system.

I find "keeping politics out of comics" is better translated as, "keep politics I don't like out of comics."

Of course the best use of the Punisher today would be to take on the biggest organized crime rings, the police, but marvel isn’t gonna have the balls to have him gun down the NYPD en masse

That was my weird problem with Frank lecturing the police about their fandom. Frank would either kill them, beat them up, or just leave.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

It’s always gonna be fundamentally incoherent at best because Frank’s core is “the system failed my family so it’s up to me to take the fight to organized crime”, which is a deeply political statement. Like not even in an “all art is at least a little political because it’s communicating with the reader and that assumes some political common ground”, that’s just literally a commentary on specific aspects of the political system.

I find "keeping politics out of comics" is better translated as, "keep politics I don't like out of comics."

Of course the best use of the Punisher today would be to take on the biggest organized crime rings, the police, but marvel isn’t gonna have the balls to have him gun down the NYPD en masse

That was my weird problem with Frank lecturing the police about their fandom. Frank would either kill them, beat them up, or just leave.

I'm not saying that he's a libertarian champion, but he is a libertarian’s hero. And it's not without undue scrutiny. The very premise is a spite upon him.

[CharlesPhipps]

Frank is a bit like that witch hunter from Good Omens.

His politics begin and end at "someone should murder the world's criminals."

He's not really interested in anything else.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Frank is a bit like that witch hunter from Good Omens.

His politics begin and end at "someone should murder the world's criminals."

He's not really interested in anything else.

Maybe in the comics. In the Netflix shows though he's rich in character development and political nuance.

[MithrandirOlorin]

Frank is a bit like that witch hunter from Good Omens.

His politics begin and end at "someone should murder the world's criminals."

He's not really interested in anything else.

Maybe in the comics. In the Netflix shows though he's rich in character development and political nuance.

Kinda Confusing to keep calling it the Netflix show when it's not on Netflix anymore.

[CharlesPhipps]

Maybe in the comics. In the Netflix shows though he's rich in character development and political nuance.

The Netflix version is, "I hate the Military Industrial Complex."

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Protagonist point gun and shoot people.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Frank is a bit like that witch hunter from Good Omens.

His politics begin and end at "someone should murder the world's criminals."

He's not really interested in anything else.

Maybe in the comics. In the Netflix shows though he's rich in character development and political nuance.

Kinda Confusing to keep calling it the Netflix show when it's not on Netflix anymore.

How is it confusing?