Sfdebris.net

TGLS wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 11:52 am

MithrandirOlorin wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:45 am

CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 2:46 am Actually, HG Welles backed away from eugenics because he realized that (correctly) that science was just reinforcing taboos.

I.e. racism.

He embraced Darwin but came out against Social Darwinism.

He was still a Class Collaborationist.

And that's bad why exactly?

For the same reason Collaborating with Nazis is Bad.

MithrandirOlorin wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:23 pm

TGLS wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 11:52 am

MithrandirOlorin wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:45 am

CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 2:46 am Actually, HG Welles backed away from eugenics because he realized that (correctly) that science was just reinforcing taboos.

I.e. racism.

He embraced Darwin but came out against Social Darwinism.

He was still a Class Collaborationist.

And that's bad why exactly?

For the same reason Collaborating with Nazis is Bad.

"Rich people are the same as Nazis" Well that's certainly a take.

TGLS wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 4:09 pm

MithrandirOlorin wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:23 pm

TGLS wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 11:52 am

MithrandirOlorin wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:45 am

CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 2:46 am Actually, HG Welles backed away from eugenics because he realized that (correctly) that science was just reinforcing taboos.

I.e. racism.

He embraced Darwin but came out against Social Darwinism.

He was still a Class Collaborationist.

And that's bad why exactly?

For the same reason Collaborating with Nazis is Bad.

"Rich people are the same as Nazis" Well that's certainly a take.

Nazis are a more immediate short term danger when in power, but Capitalism is the far more threatening long term threat.

MithrandirOlorin wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 4:45 pm

TGLS wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 4:09 pm

MithrandirOlorin wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:23 pm

TGLS wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 11:52 am

MithrandirOlorin wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:45 am

CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 2:46 am Actually, HG Welles backed away from eugenics because he realized that (correctly) that science was just reinforcing taboos.

I.e. racism.

He embraced Darwin but came out against Social Darwinism.

He was still a Class Collaborationist.

And that's bad why exactly?

For the same reason Collaborating with Nazis is Bad.

"Rich people are the same as Nazis" Well that's certainly a take.

Nazis are a more immediate short term danger when in power, but Capitalism is the far more threatening long term threat.

Capitalism has created a world where we are healthier, fitter, live longer, freer and are more comfortable than we ever have been in human history. In 2023, almost no one is actually poor. You still have clothes, you probably still have a phone and an internet connection, you still eat, you still have a roof over your head. For reference, being poor in Victorian London meant looking like this:



And i'm sure you are going to ask this question so let me answer it: ''How did capitalism create the best time to live in human history that is the present day?''

Its quite simple really: there is no profit in poverty or inequality. Poor people cannot buy your products. Keeping women jobless means they cannot buy your products. Keeping black people as slaves means they cannot buy your products. You may notice that this is the exact argument that Quark used in Profit and Lace - y'know, the race that is based on the worst aspects of capitalism? Even he saw it. Capitalism is a fantastic motivator for change because nothing motivates someone more than making money.

clearspira wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 9:38 pm

MithrandirOlorin wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 4:45 pm

TGLS wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 4:09 pm

MithrandirOlorin wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:23 pm

TGLS wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 11:52 am

MithrandirOlorin wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:45 am

CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 2:46 am Actually, HG Welles backed away from eugenics because he realized that (correctly) that science was just reinforcing taboos.

I.e. racism.

He embraced Darwin but came out against Social Darwinism.

He was still a Class Collaborationist.

And that's bad why exactly?

For the same reason Collaborating with Nazis is Bad.

"Rich people are the same as Nazis" Well that's certainly a take.

Nazis are a more immediate short term danger when in power, but Capitalism is the far more threatening long term threat.

Capitalism has created a world where we are healthier, fitter, live longer, freer and are more comfortable than we ever have been in human history. In 2023, almost no one is actually poor. You still have clothes, you probably still have a phone and an internet connection, you still eat, you still have a roof over your head. For reference, being poor in Victorian London meant looking like this:



And i'm sure you are going to ask this question so let me answer it: ''How did capitalism create the best time to live in human history that is the present day?''

Its quite simple really: there is no profit in poverty or inequality. Poor people cannot buy your products. Keeping women jobless means they cannot buy your products. Keeping black people as slaves means they cannot buy your products. You may notice that this is the exact argument that Quark used in Profit and Lace - y'know, the race that is based on the worst aspects of capitalism? Even he saw it. Capitalism is a fantastic motivator for change because nothing motivates someone more than making money.

Capitalism did make any of those things, the Workers did.

What Capitalism did cause is Climate Change.

Victorian London was capitalist.

MithrandirOlorin wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 1:36 am Capitalism did make any of those things, the Workers did.

What Capitalism did cause is Climate Change.

You can't claim credit for producing a product without taking the responsibility for the externalities. I seriously doubt that any alternative economic system would be able to create the same level of wealth as capitalism without similar adverse consequences to the environment, public health, etc. Consider the ludicrous pollution under the Soviet system, for example.

hammerofglass wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 6:44 am Victorian London was capitalist.

OK, then, let's move things back to circa 1300, when most of the world was filled with peasants working some local magnate's manor. Seven hundred years of manorialism brought almost no improvements in the lifestyles of the average person, until the Black Death of all things, where the deaths of lots of people led to increases in wages. Seven hundred years of capitalism brought about the modern world of airliners, mass communications and human rights.

Now, has capitalism done bad things? Obviously; the East India Company and the Coal Wars come to mind. Is capitalism as bad as the Nazism? No, all the Nazis ever did was add more misery to the history of the human race. Capitalists have done some things worth admiring, for one thing, beating the Nazis.

I do not think Feudalism was nearly as bad as it's popularly made out to be.

MithrandirOlorin wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 2:47 pm I do not think Feudalism was nearly as bad as it's popularly made out to be.

I stopped taking you seriously when you said you're an adherent of Anarchism. Now I point and laugh at you.

Madner Kami wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 4:02 pm

MithrandirOlorin wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 2:47 pm I do not think Feudalism was nearly as bad as it's popularly made out to be.

I stopped taking you seriously when you said you're an adherent of Anarchism. Now I point and laugh at you.

Feudalism is not something we should return to, but there are a lot bad myths being perpetuated about the Middle Ages.