Poparena - my falling out

[Yukaphile]

I don't know where else to discuss this, so I might as well do so here. There's this small YouTube channel, called "poparena." The guy was inspired by SF Debris, among others. He rose to small Internet fame with a series of Animorphs reviews, and then recently with a Nickelodeon retrospective. I've been a fan for eight years, 2010. I've been following for that long. I've been donating to requested reviews since he opened them up in 2012. When he created his Patreon in 2015, I was one of the first to sign up. Though in 2015, I was also a huge jerk towards Death Battle and Ben Singer in particular, and he saw it and was disappointed in me. I've pumped over $1500 worth of requested reviews into his channel. I've been a faithful fan, and even though the largest Patreon reward tier is only $5, I've consistently donated $10 or $15 at the highest, because I just want to see his channel grow that much. As of this moment, he should have around $330 dollars in Patreon funds, though most only donate $1 or $5. And in his own words, we were never friends, just a fan and a creator.

Yesterday, he brought a hammer down on me. He said he wanted me to stop asking for requested reviews, kicked me off his patron list under the charge of "bullying and harassment" and blocked me on Twitter. I even had to leave his Discord because I was afraid if I didn't, he'd shut it down and ruin it for everyone else. This has been kind of a long time coming. Tensions between us have been growing for weeks. It first began when I admittedly was being stupid and complaining about him not uploading his You Can't Do That On Television review fast enough. Especially given the stresses he was dealing with. I admit as much. The second time was another problem over update issues, which I promised would be the last. And then, finally, yesterday, I made a rather innocuous comment at the time, that I think he just blew all out of proportion and completely overreacted to, and harshly to at that. I had wondered why he threw in a "get out and vote" plug into one of his Nick videos when he didn't do so in 2016, given the stakes were higher. Now, I did not accuse him of not voting in 2016. I was just wondering why he didn't use his small but limited influence even back then to maybe help change the outcome. Even if that wasn't possible. But that's what happened. He accused me of lying about him and called me a "little shit." Then he brought the aforementioned hammer down on me, and I left to spare the others, because with the second time, he had threatened to shut down the Discord, and I didn't want to ruin it for everyone, but also out of humiliation and anger. Eight years of support, of going above and beyond what the typical fan would do, and he just tosses me aside like a filthy rag. It leaves me feeling seriously depressed and I've lost faith with the world even more than I already had. I think he has been very ungrateful, and I feel very unappreciated, more than I have ever felt in my entire life.

My friends went postal. They wanted me to demand my money back. I know that's not possible. There's no way a struggling artist has $1500 on hand. I sent him a final YouTube comment, given that he had blocked me on Twitter, asking him to cancel my reviews, as politely as possible. I figure if he won't give me some common fucking courtesy and treat me the same as any other fan with the same privileges they have, then I don't want him making my requests, and that's all I want. If he persists, then I intend to ask him to stop, but I don't know if he will, because despite that, I see him as being a guy who'd wanna finish it because he wants to honor all the money I've pumped into the channel. So what do I do? Should I, in fact, ask for the money back? I don't wanna bankrupt him over this. I don't wanna ruin him over this. Despite how much he's shattered me, emotionally and mentally, I won't succumb to revenge. Hell, a small part of me is hopeful he'll come around, but given the venom he was throwing around, that's doubtful. Thoughts? And what do you guys think? Do you think I was right, or was he?

[Deledrius]

Do you think I was right, or was he?

No way to know from this post. There's only your side of the story, and it's pretty vague on the crucial details.

In the end, it doesn't matter. It really sounds like the best thing would be to move on, as you appear to be very attached to a situation that was always one-sided. You gifted this creator money because you wanted to support the growth of the channel. That situation has changed, as this creator no longer wants to accept your support. You can't force them, and since you don't want to cause harm, the only option is to gracefully walk away.

The how and whys don't really figure into it at this point, except perhaps as something to discuss as a topic with your therapist.

[Yukaphile]

What do I do if he keeps posting my reviews? That was my money I paid for, and yet if he's not going to give me the same privileges as other fans, if this is just a personal grudge on his part, then I don't want him to review them. Yet I feel as if he would, because... I paid for them. He'd feel obligated to do so. So we're at an impasse. I won't budge on this. I want to be treated the same as any other fan, and that he was so cold and dismissive doesn't make me want to be a fan anymore. How can I ask someone to give me a refund for $1500 I know they can't possibly have on hand? He's barely making a living scraping by on with Patreon as a supplementary income and YouTube videos as his primary source of income, so even installments would be out. I meant this, I don't wanna bankrupt him. But I don't want him to continue making those reviews. Is that so unreasonable?

[Deledrius]

I won't budge on this.

Then why ask for opinions on it? You've already made up your mind.

I want to be treated the same as any other fan

That's not what you're saying. You're saying that you feel entitled to being given exceptional allowances because you paid money for an undelivered good. I don't know the exact arrangement you had, but this doesn't sound right to me.

But I don't want him to continue making those reviews. Is that so unreasonable?

Yes, it is unreasonable. You don't have a say in what someone else makes. You can encourage it (and you did, by contributing to his funds), but you have no moral or legal rights to demand he does not review them, even if he re-gifted the money. I'm not sure why it bothers you so much that he might complete the agreement (if even there was one) in order to balance the books, as it were.

Your perspective on this seems to be coming at it from a skewed angle on what this relationship was.

You gave him money to support him. He no longer desires your support. You cannot force him to accept it, and you state that you have no desire to have the money back. It's unfortunate and I'm sorry you feel abandoned and betrayed by this, but your transactions have come to an end with this person. You can continue to watch his content as a normal fan, or not, but it really sounds like the best thing is as I said earlier and just walk away for now. You're too hurt by it to react constructively at the present time.

To be honest, I don't think the money is the issue here, but you keep bringing it up, so I can't be sure. It sounds like you feel you aren't being treated fairly, but getting a "refund" of your donations won't change that. I suspect there may be a deeper misunderstanding about what happened and what your position was.

Either way, I doubt you will find solace or restitution by posting about it here. No one here can do anything about it, and only you can determine what will satisfy your sense of justice in the matter.

[Yukaphile]

I do think in retrospect, I know why he reacted so harshly. Because it wasn't technically presented as a plug, simply announcing that he voted in one of his videos. It was only a couple seconds, at most. I took it as a "get out and vote" plug. As I said, I wonder why he didn't do that in 2016, put an "I voted" announcement, even a side note of it, into one of his videos from that time period, but it wasn't an accusation. I also admit I did a horrible job explaining myself on his Discord because I just felt... things have been so awkward between us for a very long time. Even within the confines of a "fan and creator" kind of relationship. So I just ran away, as I said. I didn't want to ruin Discord for the others. Especially given the warning he'd made that he would shut it down. I could have explained it better... but then a part of me wonders if this really was inevitable. If he never cared for my support at all. I know. I'm a very annoying, very grating, very bothersome person. A pest. And I'm very neurotic. I like to think my heart's in the right place, but I'm not sure if it is a lot of the time. Always plagued by doubts. And all this has done is just... helped me fall out of love with the world even more. I've lost faith more than ever. And I just... just... I don't want to be here anymore. I'm hanging on for my friends and my family. But other than that, I've just stopped caring about the world. Nothing is consistent. Nothing is constant. Except that things always get worse and the world sucks. And... this is becoming a speech. I'm sorry. Didn't mean to ramble. Never mind. Forget it. At least I can see his perspective now, in hindsight. I don't think he will ever understand mine, though. Eight years of fan support, and... it's all been reduced to nothing.

[Yukaphile]

Sigh... now he's thanking every one of his 116 patrons individually on Twitter, and this hurts and enrages me because up till two weeks ago, that would have included me. Now he hates me, over a stupid misunderstanding I didn't explain well, he didn't try to understand better, and eight years of fan support... gone. Doubt he'll mention me, even though I went way above and beyond what a fan normally does and can afford, when he kicked me off Patreon under the charge of "harassment and bullying." I mean, even if you want to argue I was out of line... harassment and bullying? Sigh... how I wish that car that hit me 11 years ago could have finished the job before this ever happened...

EDIT: Fucking called it. Didn't even mention me at all. It's as if my fan support of the eight years never happened. I might as well be a bug in his eyes. Nonexistent... but then, in some ways, I'm glad he didn't. I might have gotten confused if I was still a patron even though I have none of the benefits, thus he's still charging me for money, with none of the rewards. Seems that's not the case.

[Robovski]

He owes you nothing, you are also not a current patron.

[Yukaphile]

I'm not saying he owes me something. Just that he tossed me aside as well as eight years of fan support, over a stupid misunderstanding, that yes, I was responsible for. But it takes two to argue. And however much you want to spin-doctor it, his stuff is free. Free content. It costs a lot more donating money. So, yes, I can't help feeling very fucking unappreciated after he kicked me out of his community of eight years over a goddamned political thing, when I wasn't even accusing him or lying about him.

[Admiral X]

Makes me think whatever you did must've been pretty bad, or maybe just a "straw that broke the camel's back" situation. Given what you described in your OP, I could see it as the latter, especially given the way you've posted at this forum. At times, it's like you're a self-appointed political officer (though to be fair, you're hardly the only one here). Take, for example:

I had wondered why he threw in a "get out and vote" plug into one of his Nick videos when he didn't do so in 2016, given the stakes were higher. Now, I did not accuse him of not voting in 2016. I was just wondering why he didn't use his small but limited influence even back then to maybe help change the outcome

I can definitely see that as pissing someone off in that light, particularly if you've been doing it for some length of time. Not to mention, you do realize that some reviewer on the internet is not going to affect the outcome of a Presidential election, right? So you giving him crap over him not saying something is not exactly constructive criticism, you know? And if you're constantly harping on him over it, yeah, that's gonna add up.

[Yukaphile]

It really seemed to be that he thought I was lying about him, though, when I wasn't. And I admit I made it worse by not explaining it well. I know he voted in 2016, so I was not accusing him, as I said.

All I know is this really hurt me, and I can't find a way to make it stop hurting.