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Discuss.

I don't get it? I mean, she's a sex slave, technically, to a murderous, abusive, cruel psychopath who took naked photos of a tortured Barbara and, depending on your interpretation, sexually molested or raped her. And it is implied he does the same to Harley Quinn, given she is a masochist and he's a sadist. Is this a joke? Who considers her a Feminist icon...?

Not the biggest Joker fan, I take it?

I know of a few of his stories, a few things that happened in the comics, and only vaguely recall a few things from The Animated Series as a kid, and of course, the live-action comparison.

Yukaphile wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:43 am I know of a few of his stories, a few things that happened in the comics, and only vaguely recall a few things from The Animated Series as a kid, and of course, the live-action comparison.

https://www.theodysseyonline.com/why-harley-quinn-is-actually-feminist-symbol

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:00 am https://www.theodysseyonline.com/why-harley-quinn-is-actually-feminist-symbol

I don't think we saw the same film (bad grammar in that blog post aside). Harley's character in that film entirely revolved around The Joker, much to the detriment of both her presence and the film's pacing.

Deledrius wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:59 am

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:00 am https://www.theodysseyonline.com/why-harley-quinn-is-actually-feminist-symbol

I don't think we saw the same film (bad grammar in that blog post aside). Harley's character in that film entirely revolved around The Joker, much to the detriment of both her presence and the film's pacing.

I actually didn't mind his part in the plot. While it wasn't very interesting in narrative compared to other stories with him, it served as smooth transitioning and development in the story. Like, I also liked the aesthetic... how his entrance in one scene is very high context with the tone of the victimized person changing dramatically, or just how casual he was walking into the prison to free Harley.

I think in talking independence from what I remember of the article, you could make a case for her showing capability and establishing agency among the squad.

Harley is a fun and colorful character and if the comics allow her to be, "the woman who grew out an beyond her place as the Joker's sidekick" then she would be a somewhat iconic character.

It is important in writing to start your characters low and bring them high thru their agency in the face of adversity. Harley being a hero or anti-hero after having broken away from a destructive pattern of behavior would qualify.

I do not think that DC has the editorial maturity to advance stories in such a way as to let that happen completely... as evidenced by all of their characters being stuck in a constant state of recycling as they pathetically try and capture the "glory days" of the comics... said glory days being whatever era the person in charge has developed a fascination with or grew up on... Looking at you Geoff Johns, stop hitting reset buttons.

Thing is she started off as poster girl for domestic abuse but she managed to get free from that with help from Poison Ivy and even have her own crew that's like family to her. I find weird how some people think relationship that she and Joker had ideal when it wasn't. In fact I doubt anyone would want to be part of relationship like that and yet there are women in real life that are and can't get out. Which is why people should look up at Harley for getting out of that and instead of being part of it.

She started off as the Joker's moll, not as a poster girl for domestic abuse.

In fact for the first several episodes the Joker never laid a finger on her...and when he DID start being physically violent with her, it was ironically because she was committing crimes behind his back, not because he was forcing her into anything.

The worst thing about Harley Quinn is that so many people, even in-universe, treat her as a victim in all of this, when in reality she was a willing and often gleeful participant in a ton of horrific crimes, including God knows how many murders.

She's just like the Joker in many ways; the main difference is that she has Dependant tendencies that he lacks, so she's naturally more submissive and prefers being a follower to stronger, more dynamic but almost always criminal people, and that includes Poison Ivy as much as "Mista J".

Realistically, she's less a typical victim of domestic violence and more like a member of the Manson family- but a million times worse- and every bit as capable of murdering an innocent pregnant woman (which she might have already done for all I know). In real life, any psychiatrist trying to convince her that she was an innocent victim in all of this would just be playing into her fantasies.

It's not right at all that the Joker is violent with her, but it's pretty damn rotten that she's seen as an icon for feminism or anything else just because of that. In many ways she's one of the most evil Batman villains- and yes, I just said that- considering she's so often involved in the schemes of the Joker (including his plan to murder a bunch of babies) AND Poison Ivy and who knows who else, making her a more prolific criminal than even people like the Scarecrow.

She's one of those villains we think is a much better person than she really is because of her personality and situation, or rather because of how people have misunderstood or retconned her situation. In reality, she's almost as much of a psychopathic attention freak as her boyfriend is.