Lord of the Flies

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Does anyone here have a problem with this book? I've seen a number of people (distinguished women I'd say) who find the narrative questionable. My 9th grade teacher for instance who had it on the elective reading list cringed at it in similar fashion to my mom when it was brought up to each of them.

I've never really had a problem with the social dynamic in the book. Not then, not now. It's fair to consider that there might be a bit of pathology illustrating things, it nonetheless resonated with me. And it's not necessarily just a male thing too.

[Beastro]

I ripped apart the book in school.

I hate the stupid premise hinting at a war going on (if not WWIII) while they're transiting the South Pacific and get shot down. There are no nations in the area with aircraft to be fighting in such a war. No, the war isn't WWII either, as it's clearly set in the late 40s or early 50s with, IIRC, jet fighters mentioned shooting down their plane.

As for the narrative, it's allegory, so it's contrived. With most people, what takes place wouldn't happen. People get very cautious and cooperative when fearful, most people. I'm sure a case could be made for some of the kids to be messed up enough for it to happen, but I think being done under the shadow of WWII skewed the perspective of the book: Immediate emergencies do not make people turn into monsters. Extended pathological situations and mentalities do.

What happened to Germany and the Soviet Union decades before the book cannot work in an environment with an immediate emergency, like being stranded on an island. The fundamental premise doesn't fly, but again it's allegory, so it was pigeonholed to fit.

It would have resonated with me, but the major issue is the main character. He's too passive and accommodating for a would be leader of his character and that infuriated me. I found I blamed him as much for what takes place as the bad kid (IIRC, there's a point reached where the writing is clearly on the wall and I was infuriated that he didn't preemptively kill the bad kid for it). He could have asserted himself and shut the little shit down, but he didn't. The work requires him act in ways I found uncharacteristic in order to get the desired story to be told with him being both active and decisive in other ways, but not with the bad kid.

That last bit could be my own bias showing as I hated bullies as a kid and loved to fight them. Seeing someone that could shut one down but doesn't is someone I find contemptuous. It makes the entire book is one long endurance trial of suffering seeing the main character not do what he should similar to how The Catcher in the Rye is 100 pages too long of suffering through the main characters unrelenting hypocrisy and teenage arrogance.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

It would have resonated with me, but the major issue is the main character. He's too passive and accommodating for a would be leader of his character and that infuriated me. I found I blamed him as much for what takes place as the bad kid (IIRC, there's a point reached where the writing is clearly on the wall and I was infuriated that he didn't preemptively kill the bad kid for it). He could have asserted himself and shut the little shit down, but he didn't. The work requires him act in ways I found uncharacteristic in order to get the desired story to be told with him being both active and decisive in other ways, but not with the bad kid.

How do you feel about Opum in Saving Private Ryan?

[Beastro]

It would have resonated with me, but the major issue is the main character. He's too passive and accommodating for a would be leader of his character and that infuriated me. I found I blamed him as much for what takes place as the bad kid (IIRC, there's a point reached where the writing is clearly on the wall and I was infuriated that he didn't preemptively kill the bad kid for it). He could have asserted himself and shut the little shit down, but he didn't. The work requires him act in ways I found uncharacteristic in order to get the desired story to be told with him being both active and decisive in other ways, but not with the bad kid.

How do you feel about Opum in Saving Private Ryan?

Was the hardest part of the movie for me to watch.

Had I known what he'd done he'd have at least had his face beaten to hamburger for he didn't do.

The thing about that kind of thing, you have to act or else you're haunted by your inaction knowing what you did in such a situation. That German soldier would have been merciful to have finished him off.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

It would have resonated with me, but the major issue is the main character. He's too passive and accommodating for a would be leader of his character and that infuriated me. I found I blamed him as much for what takes place as the bad kid (IIRC, there's a point reached where the writing is clearly on the wall and I was infuriated that he didn't preemptively kill the bad kid for it). He could have asserted himself and shut the little shit down, but he didn't. The work requires him act in ways I found uncharacteristic in order to get the desired story to be told with him being both active and decisive in other ways, but not with the bad kid.

How do you feel about Opum in Saving Private Ryan?

Was the hardest part of the movie for me to watch.

Had I known what he'd done he'd have at least had his face beaten to hamburger for he didn't do.

The thing about that kind of thing, you have to act or else you're haunted by your inaction knowing what you did in such a situation. That German soldier would have been merciful to have finished him off.

I guess I understand its correlation to conservative roots and philosophy. I can read into it for other than propaganda.

[Beastro]

It would have resonated with me, but the major issue is the main character. He's too passive and accommodating for a would be leader of his character and that infuriated me. I found I blamed him as much for what takes place as the bad kid (IIRC, there's a point reached where the writing is clearly on the wall and I was infuriated that he didn't preemptively kill the bad kid for it). He could have asserted himself and shut the little shit down, but he didn't. The work requires him act in ways I found uncharacteristic in order to get the desired story to be told with him being both active and decisive in other ways, but not with the bad kid.

How do you feel about Opum in Saving Private Ryan?

Was the hardest part of the movie for me to watch.

Had I known what he'd done he'd have at least had his face beaten to hamburger for he didn't do.

The thing about that kind of thing, you have to act or else you're haunted by your inaction knowing what you did in such a situation. That German soldier would have been merciful to have finished him off.

I guess I understand its correlation to conservative roots and philosophy. I can read into it for other than propaganda.

?

Not really getting what you mean. What's your take on it?

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

My biggest issue with Lord of the Flies is how it's presented. It's not meant as a universal commentary on human savagery. It's a response to Shell Island, the book about how British Boys are the most civilized people in the world, and the author who taught at a British school going "Dude, have you ever MET these kids?"

[Rocketboy1313]

As I have studied government a lot, I personally find the idea that humans are one bad day away from barbarism to be simple observation.

The book is not perfect, but it is well written (at least compared to most of the shit I was made to read in high school), and there are a few scenes that are downright haunting. The pig head scene especially.

I am a sucker for scenes in which characters talk to a Satan figure.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

As I have studied government a lot, I personally find the idea that humans are one bad day away from barbarism to be simple observation.

The book is not perfect, but it is well written (at least compared to most of the shit I was made to read in high school), and there are a few scenes that are downright haunting. The pig head scene especially.

I am a sucker for scenes in which characters talk to a Satan figure.

This is where I'm at based on the information I've come across. And I'm not talking about government or structured society so much just as even just pockets of generic people that exist like this. And also, it's like Jesus, yes this isn't the most absurd scenario to come to one's mind about regarding one's fellow pupils.

If he was a teacher as said in Fuzzy's post then it seems like it could be weird, but I imagine that's left to a bit of speculation.

[TGLS]

Yes, he was a teacher. Here's a blue plaque: