Sfdebris.net

I admit I'm making this post in a big part for selfish reasons. As a statement to and for myself and a catharsis of 8 years of disappointment with what used to be my all-time favorite TV series that I've watched from the age of 6yo. Feel free to ignore it, hate it or agree with it. It matters very little to me.

It's a New Year of 2025 and as I've always done at the end of the year I've taken a few days to look back and contemplate what I want from the next year. And one of those things is the Star Trek franchise/universe. I never hid my disappointment with what Star Trek was doing since Discovery started airing and despite giving Discovery 2 seasons (and 1 season of Picard and 1 of Strange new Worlds) to get their bearing - in the end it felt like I was wasting my time. I've been in countless discussions (on this forums and others) and every time I voiced my disappointment with the characters and narrative (or the way the creators were behaving in public) it was from a point of caring about the franchise and wanting it to once again be a TV series that brings me joy and that I can wholeheartedly recommend to my friends without reservations.

But after 8 years I'm done. The base-breaking moment for me still remains the Disco episode "The Trouble with Edward." Contrasting how Discovery treats Edward with how Next Generation treats Barkley is such an obvious punch in the face that I don't think I'll be ever able to get past it.
Picard and Strange New Worlds had some nice and memorable moment but every time I sat down to watch it it was with gritty determination and a "Let's get it done!" approach. Not because I was looking forward to it.

I was genuinely starting to worry if I was experiencing the famed "growing up" that my grandparents and parents insisted would eventually come when I would stop caring about stories in books and movies and would reach the inevitable point of "maturity" where I only enjoy booze, talks about politics, family drama and sports - keeping all my childhood experiences with wonderous alien worlds, stories of heroes of sword, magic and lasers in a small box in my memory that would only be opened when interacting with little kids.

But over the years while I was brooding over Star Trek - something very unexpected happened. I started playing Arknights and Warframe and it was in the moment when I was watching the trailer of Alexandrina "Vina" Victoria coming to Arknights as an evolution and conclusion to the story of an exiled Lion Princess who survived the coup against her family and returns as an adult to the Throne of her forefathers, toppling down the corrupt Usurper - only to renounce the crown and celebrate those that helped her with the uprising by giving people the power they rightfully deserve and changing her Kingdom into a Constitutional Monarchy that I realised the issue.
That 5-minute trailer for a Gacha game made me cry like a little baby. Made me cheer and look forward to the future of this harsh world of Arknights. It made me feel a ton of conflicting emotions of sorrow for those lost and joy for those that finally earned the happy ending and it made me care a damn lot. In that one trailer (and because of the 5 years that Hypergryph spent carefully building that awesome universe) I felt way more emotions than I've felt for Star Trek in 8 years and 3 TV series (exculding the fan-made Unification that was a powerful but short moment of nostalgia).

With Warframe the emotional attachement runs even deeper for me (especially since I've played it for much longer) and the 1999 update with it's awesome cinematics and powerfull music made me once again care a hell of a lot for a fate of a few fictional (but very human) bad-asses. And it was such a joyful moment when that realization happened.
I can't for the love of me remember a single theme or song from the whole of post-2017 Trek. But I sure as hell won't ever forget the 1999 OST - Arthur's Finale with it's broody strings, the rock&roll rendition of "This is What You Are" riff and the soothing finale that brings healing and hope. All in a 2-minute song.

So giving it some time - the conclusion is as obvious as it is undeniable. I haven't lost the ability to love, learn from and enjoy fictional stories of heroes and monsters. I haven't stopped caring. Those emotionaly impactful stories just aren't to be found in Star Trek for me anymore. And it's pointless to insist on wasting my time, energy and emotions on something that at best leaves me bored and at worst drives me to anger and disgust.

So I'm done. Done with watching Star Trek, done thinking about it and done giving it my time or energy. That sadly includes watching Youtube review/analysis videos on them - including Chuck's. I'll give it a few months to see if I still enjoy SF Debris videos that are on other topics than Star Trek enough to stick around but since Trek was what brought me here and made me stay and engage with the community - I'm not very optimistic.

On the off-chance that Chuck is reading this - Thanks for all your work Mr.Sonnenburg! You are the best Trek reviewer out there. Your videos gave me countless hours of joy and made me think hard both about our favorite fictional universes and about myself. Your Fair Haven episode speech about the value of feeling real emotions over fictional characters really was an awakening. I wish you best of luck in the future and I will keep recommending you as THE best Star Trek/Sci-fi reviewer/creator.

...and the sky is the limit.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt3MVP3FizQ[/youtube]

A quibble and a question. First the quibble

tyrteg wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2025 10:07 pmBut after 8 years I'm done. The base-breaking moment for me still remains the Disco episode "The Trouble with Edward." Contrasting how Discovery treats Edward with how Next Generation treats Barkley is such an obvious punch in the face that I don't think I'll be ever able to get past it.

That isn't Discovery though. That's Short Treks. I understand the mistake, but I'm too pedantic to let it go.

Now the question: have you tried Lower Decks? If not, it's good. Give it a try.

I get it. I have heard enough old school Trek fans just not liking how the new Trek is being done. They all got their reasons.

I also get why fans can't get into Lower Decks due to its style of animation, or the fact it is animation. Or that it is a comedy series. Some fans have more merit than others.

But after 8 years I'm done. The base-breaking moment for me still remains the Disco episode "The Trouble with Edward." Contrasting how Discovery treats Edward with how Next Generation treats Barkley is such an obvious punch in the face that I don't think I'll be ever able to get past it.

Edward is engaged in illegal animal experimentation and defies a direct order before getting a ship destroyed.

He's a monster of a human being.

I treat him as the same sort of man who tortures dogs.

Prodigy needs love. I would say it is one of the best series to have come out. If you need anything give that a try.

Hopefully you do not leave SFDebris over disappointment in Trek. Our beloved Chuck reviews more than just Trek and the forums have delightful characters to debate with or just observe their opinions.

Oddly I have watched some SNW and I find it to be the most like the Trek I remember. Now it has ended I will look for a Blu-ray collection of Lower Decks as so many speak highly of where it ended up.

I wouldn't advise leaving until we learn whether the STD retcon is true or not. And even if it isn't, Paramount and CBS are owned by Skydance now. The faint possibility of change is on the horizon.

But yeah, as things stand today, Star Trek is a damaged brand. When the prospect of a retcon comes up, considerable numbers of people should not be cheering. That is not the sign that all is well within your ip. The fall between today and its height in the 1980s-1990s is extreme. This show was once the cultural zeitgeist. Everyone knows who Kirk and Picard is. Everyone knows ''the chick in the silver catsuit with the big bazoomas'', everyone knows ''beam me up Scotty'', everyone knows ''Kahhhhhhnnnn!!!'', everyone knows ''newclear wessels''. And this is regardless of whether you watch the show or not. But I would be willing to bet actual money that non-sci fi fans would not be able to name you a single character from any of the modern shows let alone a show name. And this is compounded by the decision to make it exclusive to a single streaming service which means that there is a hard limit on how many viewers you will ever be able to attract. Star Wars and Dr Who is also the same of course. How many people do you think could name you the current Dr Who companion or a character from the Acolyte?

The old adage of ''never assume malice when incompetence will do'' does apply. But man, this is a LOT of incompetence to account for. Years and years of it at this point. I can easily see why some would assume intentional sabotage tbh even when realistically it doesn't make much sense why a corporation would intentionally want to make their product less profitable. The last ten years have been overall absolute poison for our favourite sci-fi brands with but a few cherries of quality to be found such as LD or Rogue One.

PS You should stay for Chuck. He has branched considerably away from Star Trek after all.

Too be fair Clearspira, most people never even heard of DS9... and that's a really good show. But I do agree, even DS9 had its references and the like, I see NONE for Discovery.

clearspira wrote: ↑Sat Jan 04, 2025 9:24 pm But yeah, as things stand today, Star Trek is a damaged brand. When the prospect of a retcon comes up, considerable numbers of people should not be cheering. That is not the sign that all is well within your ip. The fall between today and its height in the 1980s-1990s is extreme. This show was once the cultural zeitgeist. Everyone knows who Kirk and Picard is. Everyone knows ''the chick in the silver catsuit with the big bazoomas'', everyone knows ''beam me up Scotty'', everyone knows ''Kahhhhhhnnnn!!!'', everyone knows ''newclear wessels''. And this is regardless of whether you watch the show or not. But I would be willing to bet actual money that non-sci fi fans would not be able to name you a single character from any of the modern shows let alone a show name. And this is compounded by the decision to make it exclusive to a single streaming service which means that there is a hard limit on how many viewers you will ever be able to attract. Star Wars and Dr Who is also the same of course. How many people do you think could name you the current Dr Who companion or a character from the Acolyte?

This observation gets really poignant once you consider, that Lower Decks also ran in Amazon Prime (not certain whether it was season 1 and 2 or if 3 was also there and I do not care enough to look it up atm). But since the show moved to Paramount only, next to nobody has talked about it. You'd think LD being kind of a success early on would be a hint, but nope.

Also that SNW Captain was an arsehole, regardless on what you think about Edward and what he did, Phibbs. That's not how you deal with such a man, much less the situation at all, especially as the commanding officer. This is yet another bad part of NuTrek.

clearspira wrote: ↑Sat Jan 04, 2025 9:24 pm
The old adage of ''never assume malice when incompetence will do'' does apply. But man, this is a LOT of incompetence to account for. Years and years of it at this point. I can easily see why some would assume intentional sabotage tbh even when realistically it doesn't make much sense why a corporation would intentionally want to make their product less profitable. The last ten years have been overall absolute poison for our favourite sci-fi brands with but a few cherries of quality to be found such as LD or Rogue One.

Hollywood producers seem to be myopic. I saw a making of Wild Wild West that a producer wanted a B52 because jets are cool.
Enterprise had the time war forced on them because time travel in Trek sells well.

It could be these people want to make more money, but look at a spreadsheet instead of what fans will care about.

There seems to be these business degrees every where. Look at Chuck's review of the comics industry. One guy gets in and decides to print 'Collector's Editions' to print money. Even though that is not how that works. Like making brand new antiques.