TOS - Bread & Circuses

[clearspira]

What is going on with Kirk's uniform in this episode? Not only is he in green instead of gold, but his Starfleet insignia is down around his waist and pointed sideways instead of the normal location.

Out of interest, how much TOS have you watched as Kirk actually wears this quite often.

The real world explanation for this is actually rather interesting: those uniforms were not actually gold - they were lime-green. I know that seems hard to believe but it was due to the lighting gels and cameras of the time making the uniforms seem gold on-screen. The wrap-around uniform, because it was made of a lighter shade of green, actually looked green on-screen.

Here's a link to a fascinating article on this https://intl.startrek.com/article/shirt ... ins-in-tos but if you haven't got time to click on it, here's also an image:



As for the design change, there is an interesting explanation behind that too: its because Shatner was notorious for gaining a belly during filming. The wrap-around uniform was made of a different cut that made him look thinner and thus preserved continuity. Supposedly, all of the wrap-around episodes were filmed after the ''normal uniform'' episodes. The rest of the time he wore a girdle.

[CrypticMirror]

I barely remember the episode, so this is based on the review, but did Kirk just abandon the other survivors of the Beagle?

Based off memory, they'd been sold out by Merik and forced into the games. After checking Memory Alpha, it says that he claimed some had assimilated into the local society so if that was true then yeah, Kirk ditched them. However MA also says that there is a line of dialogue that contradicts the idea that they were assimilated, but were really all forced to compete and Merik was just lying.

To be honest, I couldn't recall much about this episode either. I'd actually forgotten the tv-ratings angle of it entirely. It just sticks in my mind as Space Romans, death match, Spock getting caught putting his face on by McCoy, and that is pretty much it.

Thanks. I’m just going to head cannon that he rescued any survivors after the episode.

It might be hard to locate them, if they assimilated, though, that is the only thing. How do you locate a bunch of people on a planet when they've just gotten on with their lives, and you have no support from the local authorities? Also if they have gotten on with their lives, built news ones, then you're bound to run up against an Angel One scenario with people not wanting to disrupt their new lives and new loved ones to go back, how do you deal with that? I think in this case, assuming they were all killed and Merik was a liar is probably the best way.

[Meushell]

It might be hard to locate them, if they assimilated, though, that is the only thing. How do you locate a bunch of people on a planet when they've just gotten on with their lives, and you have no support from the local authorities? Also if they have gotten on with their lives, built news ones, then you're bound to run up against an Angel One scenario with people not wanting to disrupt their new lives and new loved ones to go back, how do you deal with that? I think in this case, assuming they were all killed and Merik was a liar is probably the best way.

All true. However, assuming any that are still alive, you still might have a few that are still hoping to be rescued. If there is even one, I think that it would be the duty of Starfleet to at least try to find them. Assuming that Merik lied, after all, could also mean that he sold them all, and the survivors are fighting for their lives on a regular basis.

It’s also possible that the Enterprise crew isn’t equipped or trained enough for this, and there is a more specialized crew that is.

[Mickey_Rat15]

What is going on with Kirk's uniform in this episode? Not only is he in green instead of gold, but his Starfleet insignia is down around his waist and pointed sideways instead of the normal location.

Out of interest, how much TOS have you watched as Kirk actually wears this quite often.

The real world explanation for this is actually rather interesting: those uniforms were not actually gold - they were lime-green. I know that seems hard to believe but it was due to the lighting gels and cameras of the time making the uniforms seem gold on-screen. The wrap-around uniform, because it was made of a lighter shade of green, actually looked green on-screen.

Here's a link to a fascinating article on this https://intl.startrek.com/article/shirt ... ins-in-tos but if you haven't got time to click on it, here's also an image:



As for the design change, there is an interesting explanation behind that too: its because Shatner was notorious for gaining a belly during filming. The wrap-around uniform was made of a different cut that made him look thinner and thus preserved continuity. Supposedly, all of the wrap-around episodes were filmed after the ''normal uniform'' episodes. The rest of the time he wore a girdle.

If you look at the extras in the corridors (especially 1st season), there are no crewman in gold overalls like there are in blue and red, but there are ones in green. And, of course Kirk's (and Commodore Mendez's in "The Menagerie") dress uniform tunic is green.

[Mickey_Rat15]

Its funny what Chuck noted about the slaves of Rome Planet having more perks that he does because the slaves of the real Rome were incredibly well treated compared to the slaves of Greece, Egypt or the later black slaves. They had an array of rights under the law - including the right to inherit, the right to own property, the right to earn their own money and the right to buy themselves free. They could even file complaints against their masters for mistreatment which is incredible when you think about it (of course, what we today would consider mistreatment and what the Romans considered mistreatment are completely different). Many of them were even highly educated - there are reports of practising doctors being slaves. That may sound hard to believe but the punishment for debt in Ancient Rome was often to be enslaved by the state.

If you were unfortunate enough to be a slave, Rome was the place to be. (And that is never going to be taken out of context ever - no sir.)

Incidentally, Rome falling is one of the great ''what if's'' of history, and I wonder that if it survived whether this soft attitude towards slavery would have persisted and it would have ended up being abolished in the West far earlier than it actually was.

I believe that greatly depended on the situation of the slave. Julius Caesar's slave, Posca for example, who was his personal assistant was a man of some importance and even authorty. However, that came from being an educated Greek in the service of a powerful patrician. If you were enslaved for your physical labor and were not able to get into the personal service of your owner, you would likely have a fairly miserable existance. Also, Romans of the upper classes derived status from the number of clients they cared for and their former slaves were an important source of clients.

It is interesting to realize that the Roman Empire existed as a political entity until 1458, when the Ottomans captured Constantinople, less than forty years before Columbus opened the New World to the Old.

[Madner Kami]

Its funny what Chuck noted about the slaves of Rome Planet having more perks that he does because the slaves of the real Rome were incredibly well treated compared to the slaves of Greece, Egypt or the later black slaves. They had an array of rights under the law - including the right to inherit, the right to own property, the right to earn their own money and the right to buy themselves free. They could even file complaints against their masters for mistreatment which is incredible when you think about it (of course, what we today would consider mistreatment and what the Romans considered mistreatment are completely different). Many of them were even highly educated - there are reports of practising doctors being slaves. That may sound hard to believe but the punishment for debt in Ancient Rome was often to be enslaved by the state.

If you were unfortunate enough to be a slave, Rome was the place to be. (And that is never going to be taken out of context ever - no sir.)

Incidentally, Rome falling is one of the great ''what if's'' of history, and I wonder that if it survived whether this soft attitude towards slavery would have persisted and it would have ended up being abolished in the West far earlier than it actually was.

Those "improved slave laws" were the result of the three Servile Wars. You might have heard of especially the last one, which began with a small revolt of a band of gladiators in Capua and ended with the crucifixion of the mere 6,000 survivors of the final battle, along the Appian Way... Rome didn't grant those slave rights out of enlightenment. They granted those rights and limits because they were scared shitless, which is hardly surprising when more than two thirds of your population is in forced servitude...

[Rocketboy1313]

You know, at a certain point this feels more like a "Sliders" episode akin to "Mirror, Mirror".

What if...Rome NEVER FELL! (and also became the dominant power over the entire Earth, and continued to advance in technology and culture for centuries, but plateaued around the late 20th century in tech...)

The limitations of makeup, costuming, and other production factors often made the parallel worlds idea much more viable than alien world and they should have used it more often to explain things. Like Kirk reading the Constitution to barbarians or the world of only children and disease.
Parallel universes being more woven into the core mythos of Trek early on, I feel, would have been a good tool going forward.

[Rocketboy1313]

Kicking off this week's discussion with perhaps an obvious observation: seems like this episode would have been better if it were reworked into a showcase for the Romulans. I mean, Trek already had a "Romans but in space" antagonist, why not use them instead of doing another "parallel earth" thing?

But I suppose that would have either gutted the ending or made it more difficult to achieve.

I like this idea.
Rather than do another cloned Earth taking the ideas of mass media and blood sports and putting it into the Romulan culture would have certainly fleshed them out, while at the same time providing an episode that fit as another good exploration of a main series antagonist.

Just put it on a Colony near the Neutral Zone, have the Enterprise use that old cloaking device to investigate the missing ship, and then have the leader of the planet have some hidden motivation for not wanting to reveal the existence of Starfleet. Maybe the Prator or Consul that oversees the planet doesn't want a war with the Federation because their planet would be the first to be torched, but still wants to make a bit of a show out of having captured Starfleet officers.

There is something there.

[tvindy]

Here's a link to a fascinating article on this https://intl.startrek.com/article/shirt ... ins-in-tos but if you haven't got time to click on it, here's also an image:

That was a great article, but I was completely taken aback by this sentence:

Theiss wanted the three Starfleet service branches to be represented by the three primary colors. He selected red for engineering, blue for sciences and… wait for it… green for command.

Obviously, green is not a primary color. Not only did Theiss make that mistake, but so did startrek.com. Having the command shirts turn out yellow in the final product actually corrected that mistake.

Also, I recall a few years back that there was a kickstarter to make available the original fabric used to produce the TOS shirts. They actually located the original manufacturer of the fabric and tracked down some leftover stock. I don't recall there being a mention that the yellow fabric was actually green.

[TGLS]

Here's a link to a fascinating article on this https://intl.startrek.com/article/shirt ... ins-in-tos but if you haven't got time to click on it, here's also an image:

That was a great article, but I was completely taken aback by this sentence:

Theiss wanted the three Starfleet service branches to be represented by the three primary colors. He selected red for engineering, blue for sciences and… wait for it… green for command.

Obviously, green is not a primary color. Not only did Theiss make that mistake, but so did startrek.com. Having the command shirts turn out yellow in the final product actually corrected that mistake.

Also, I recall a few years back that there was a kickstarter to make available the original fabric used to produce the TOS shirts. They actually located the original manufacturer of the fabric and tracked down some leftover stock. I don't recall there being a mention that the yellow fabric was actually green.

Green's a primary color in the RGB system.