VOY - Random Thoughts

[MightyDavidson]

The authorities of this planet don’t make sense. If certain thoughts are illegal, why is anyone allowed on the planet? If people lose control over violent thoughts, there should be crimes sprees every time any alien is allowed on their planet. I seriously doubt Torres and Tuvok are the only ones who have violent thoughts. I doubt that Torres would have to be provoked.

The authorities on that planet are incredibly incompetent more like. I mean it was blatantly obvious that the villain of this episode deliberately ran into Torres, you wouldn't need telepathy to tell you that but this telepathic police officer couldn't tell that from reading his mind? Either she did read his mind and somehow managed to miss his criminal scheme which, logically is foremost in his mind at the moment or she immediately blamed Torres. Either way, she's incompetent.

[clearspira]

Two scenes that I'm surprised weren't covered; Tuvok and the cop talking telepathically (which I don't remember Vulcan's ever doing

Well... Star Trek has been really inconsistent with the nature of Vulcan telepathy. It seems to have been very much decided later on that its mind meld and nothing else with them, but in the episode ''By Any Other Name'' AKA the famous Scotty drinking something green episode, Spock very clearly telepathically influences one of his captors through a solid wall.

Then there is ''All our Yesterdays'' where Spock goes back in time to the ice age and begins getting influenced by the savage pre-logic Vulcans hundreds of light years away. This one implies that Vulcans have a level of telepathy beyond that of even the Betazoids, at least in range.

There is also the Stone of Gol from ''Gambit'', where a Vulcan can weaponize their telepathy to kill people. Its implied that these weapons were powerful enough back in the day to be deeply feared.

Vulcans are either the most powerful telepaths in the galaxy or the worst given how badly they seem to use their powers. Probably both.

[Madner Kami]

@Chuck: In regards to your comment about fine-tuning your recent, potentially karmic reality via turning a knob with elbows... Here's a thought... What if your karmic happenings actually are fine-tuned...

On topic of the episode:

The authorities on that planet are incredibly incompetent more like. I mean it was blatantly obvious that the villain of this episode deliberately ran into Torres, you wouldn't need telepathy to tell you that but this telepathic police officer couldn't tell that from reading his mind? Either she did read his mind and somehow managed to miss his criminal scheme which, logically is foremost in his mind at the moment or she immediately blamed Torres. Either way, she's incompetent.

Or she's simply thoroughly unsuited to do her very job, like everyone in such a society would be. An integral part to an investigator is, to be able to think him-/herself into the role of the perpetrator, to see a scene of a crime and understand what has happened from the perspective of the people involved in the crime. Their society has become utterly incapable of a very basic ability that all societies (based on individuals) need to function: Empathy...

Another thing that completely bugs me about this scenario is, how Tuvok of all people is called down to investigate. Having your emotions under control is something very different from having random thoughts and extreme emotions in the first place. And here's Tuvok, member of a species that has a history of extreme violence and that is established as always running on the razor's edge, when it comes to self-control and having violent thoughts. If there's one species less suited to beam down on that planet than a (half-)klingon, then it's a fucking Vulcan! They essentially want to defuse a 1t emotional bomb and bring down a fucking nuclear emotional device in the gigaton range... Brilliant idea! *slow-clap*

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Two scenes that I'm surprised weren't covered; Tuvok and the cop talking telepathically (which I don't remember Vulcan's ever doing, let alone any other telepaths in Trek),

When they are touching it is much easier but there can be connections from short distances as well. Spock uses it to escape from a prison cell in one scene in TOS I remember.

Vulcans aren't innate telepaths though, it's a learned and once forbidden practice. Betazoids are innate telepaths and apparently can be more comfortable talking like that with each other. Troi from TNG is half betazoid so thus does not have the ability to talk or receive communicative thought patterns unless with another betazoid.

[AllanO]

Vulcans aren't innate telepaths though, it's a learned and once forbidden practice. Betazoids are innate telepaths and apparently can be more comfortable talking like that with each other. Troi from TNG is half betazoid so thus does not have the ability to talk or receive communicative thought patterns unless with another betazoid.

Well if you remember Encounter at Far Point, Riker is able to receive a telepathic communication from Troi when they first meet, this does not come up much again.

Also what's her name from Is There in Truth No Beauty, was a human telepath who trained her abilities with the Vulcans (she was worried she was not as good a telepath as Spock because she could not mind meld IIRC).

How psychic powers work in Trek, who can have them, how trainable they are etc. is kind of up in the air between different episodes.

[DisgruntleFairy]

The prop that Chuck refers to has been on several other episodes of Star Trek. I think it was used in A Matter of Perspective. I'm sure it popped up more. Anyone else remeber it?

Ok I was wrong, I just double checked. I swear though its been in other episodes.

[Al-1701]

The thing is, the fix would be simple. Have Torres want the procedure. Their punishment for her bad thoughts is told to not set foot on the planet again. Have her go into the fact her life has been made a lot harder by her pension for violence, being barred from searching for the parts she needs just being the latest case. While she's managed to control expressing it since joining the crew, it still seethes below the surface. She also feels remorse for leading to the beating of the vendor. If these people have a means to tone it down, she thinks it will make her life better. Tom doesn't want it as he's afraid it will change who she is. This sets up an internal conflict for Torres and an external conflict between her and Tom.

The thought dealers would be the B plot which would derail things. Torres ends up not going through the procedure, realizing she has improved herself on her own and this is a journey she cannot take shortcuts on.

[Rocketboy1313]

You know I am thinking about the line from "Inception" that ideas are a form of infectious disease. The idea that you have a culture who are especially susceptible to this kind of mental infection and that they could absorb so many experiences that they become neurotic messes would make for an interesting premise.

I think it is the first episode of "Kino's Journey"?

Regardless, there has to be levels to the kind of thoughts that are fleeting, versus those that have some depth, and those that radiate from deeply held belief or psychosis. Maybe all the aliens on this planet have mostly shallow thoughts and the purging of their culture of violent tendencies have left them kind of numb? That they see the emotions radiating off Torres who keeps her moods near the surface and want to experience it?

The episode plays up the, "if you make it illegal" but I think the better angle would be, "You need to feel things even if it hurts".

[Fianna]

What exactly are the side-effects supposed to be from having this particular thought removed from her head?

'Cause if she's just objecting to them tampering with her brain on general principle, then why's she okay with Tuvok mindmelding her?

[Marveryn]

The authorities of this planet don’t make sense. If certain thoughts are illegal, why is anyone allowed on the planet? If people lose control over violent thoughts, there should be crimes sprees every time any alien is allowed on their planet. I seriously doubt Torres and Tuvok are the only ones who have violent thoughts. I doubt that Torres would have to be provoked.

You got a point a society as presented should had been isolationist. In fact a way to re write the story is that they are isolationist and pure good thought people who have no clue about violence but then they are about to be attack by another alien race. So they need to find a species with violent thoughts so they can create warriors to fight the invaders but we got something like that back on the next generation with the supersoldier group that couldn't return to society. Otherwise the group is like Ahuh. yeah sure. No unhappy th ought