TNG - The Ensigns of Command

[Mabus]

Yeah, I too think this episode is more of 6/10 than 4/10, mainly because the ending lifts up the episode.
As for the Sheliak threat not being characterized enough, I imagine they're like the Breen, they have a reputation of being powerful so no one challenges them but rarely go around conquering stuff, instead they prefer to go by treaties and only use brute force under special circumstances. And I say this because given how big the treaty is said to be, I imagine they have a tendency to abuse the meaning of certain paragraphs from their treaties to justify their goals, in this case they justify the extermination of the settlers without fear of war, kind of how the stand-your-ground law was abused several times in the US to get away with premeditated murder. And given how the Federation has accepted dumb treaties in the past, I imagine the Sheliak were more than thrilled to use this method to achieve their goals.

[CharlesPhipps]

I dunno, I think the Maquis at least had the historical precedent of the Bajoran Insurgency. The Cardassians are apparently sensitive enough to casualties and the opinion of other states to force a withdrawal. The entry of the Dominion, who care about neither, changed things drastically.

While true, the irony is that Gul Dukat eventually comes to the conclusion that the biggest mistake the Cardassians made was NOT exterminating the Bajorans because that way would have resulted in them achieving "victory." Though the difference between a homeworld and colonies is pretty noteworthy.

In the case of the Dominion, though, the Cardassians have the oomph to push back the part of the Alpha Quadrant that would care about genocide (i.e. the Federation).

The Sheliak threat isn't explained well enough for me. Are they comparable with the Federation? Because we never hear of them again. It seems to me that the episode points to them being just some small time regional power who are threatening the big boys of the galaxy. I really cannot help but think that in any other episode the solution would have been to shoot the Sheliak and call it a day. They are about to kill 15,000 Federation citizens after all so it is very much a self-defence judgement call.
This episode would have been much improved with the Cardassians or Romulans. With them, it is clearly established why a military option is unacceptable and you can imagine the Federation signing some silly treaty with them.

I agree with Chuck. This is an underwhelming episode. The stakes are poorly laid out and relies on the characters not acting the way they normally would.

I mean that is unilaterally stealing a planet from people that had been promised said planet in a treaty.

And you can bet, regional power or not, that more than 15K will die in it.

Mind you, this passes into the "Sci Fi Writers have no sense of scale" issue that Insurrection does. Why can't people SHARE the planet?

The Sheliak threat isn't explained well enough for me. Are they comparable with the Federation? Because we never hear of them again. It seems to me that the episode points to them being just some small time regional power who are threatening the big boys of the galaxy. I really cannot help but think that in any other episode the solution would have been to shoot the Sheliak and call it a day. They are about to kill 15,000 Federation citizens after all so it is very much a self-defence judgement call.
This episode would have been much improved with the Cardassians or Romulans. With them, it is clearly established why a military option is unacceptable and you can imagine the Federation signing some silly treaty with them.

I agree with Chuck. This is an underwhelming episode. The stakes are poorly laid out and relies on the characters not acting the way they normally would.

I mean that is unilaterally stealing a planet from people that had been promised said planet in a treaty.

And you can bet, regional power or not, that more than 15K will die in it.

Mind you, this passes into the "Sci Fi Writers have no sense of scale" issue that Insurrection does. Why can't people SHARE the planet?

With the Maquis, the Cardassians are definitely weaker than the Federation and they are dealing with multiple colonies across several former Federation worlds, and many Maquis are former Federation officers which makes the Federation even more involved. The Cardassians have already fought and lost a war with the Federation before so with all these things factored in, it makes sense why they would be less overtly genocidal from a purely pragmatic point of view.

In this episode, we don't know the strength of the Sheliak relative to the Federation (it could also just be a geography thing- maybe the planet in EOC is really far away) but they are only dealing with a single colony that only has a tenuous tie to the Federation from long ago. It's possible the Sheliak assumed that the Federation knew about this colony and that was the only reason they contacted them- if they thought the Federation knew nothing they might just have obliterated them without anyone knowing, depending on whether they are more "Lawful" or more "Evil". Unlike the Maquis, these colonists have zero f*cking chance at saving themselves from the Sheliak regardless of how strong or weak the Sheliak are compared to the Federation- it seems more likely that the Sheliak were just worried about provoking a war.

Eh, the Cardassians didn't lose their war with the Federation. They lost Bajor but that was because the civilian government said the war was too costly and the Cardassians got plenty of disputed planets out of the deal.

Cal Hudson even says the treaty was overly generous and the Cardassians wanted to preserve it because it was such a sweet deal. Which implies to me they got the better of it.

[Jonathan101]

With the Maquis, the Cardassians are definitely weaker than the Federation and they are dealing with multiple colonies across several former Federation worlds, and many Maquis are former Federation officers which makes the Federation even more involved. The Cardassians have already fought and lost a war with the Federation before so with all these things factored in, it makes sense why they would be less overtly genocidal from a purely pragmatic point of view.

In this episode, we don't know the strength of the Sheliak relative to the Federation (it could also just be a geography thing- maybe the planet in EOC is really far away) but they are only dealing with a single colony that only has a tenuous tie to the Federation from long ago. It's possible the Sheliak assumed that the Federation knew about this colony and that was the only reason they contacted them- if they thought the Federation knew nothing they might just have obliterated them without anyone knowing, depending on whether they are more "Lawful" or more "Evil". Unlike the Maquis, these colonists have zero f*cking chance at saving themselves from the Sheliak regardless of how strong or weak the Sheliak are compared to the Federation- it seems more likely that the Sheliak were just worried about provoking a war.

Eh, the Cardassians didn't lose their war with the Federation. They lost Bajor but that was because the civilian government said the war was too costly and the Cardassians got plenty of disputed planets out of the deal.

Cal Hudson even says the treaty was overly generous and the Cardassians wanted to preserve it because it was such a sweet deal. Which implies to me they got the better of it.

I don't think that the loss of Bajor was a direct consequence of the Federation-Cardassian War- as I understand it, it was purely about border disputes and the Treaty established firm borders that left Federation citizens on the wrong side, leading to the Maquis. The Cardassians simply abandoned Bajor due to it being too costly, with the war probably just adding to the expenses.

Hudson isn't exactly an unbiased source since he is Maquis- of course he thinks that the Cardassians got off lightly. He probably blames them for starting the war in the first place (which is probably true to be honest), so the fact that they were left with worlds at all is probably grating. But that doesn't mean that the Cardassians achieved their nebulous military objectives, whatever those were.

What we do know is that the Cardassian Union was in a bad enough state after the war that they felt compelled to leave Bajor, and then they went through a period of political instability and unrest. We also know that they are militarily weaker than the Federation and there is no way that they could have won, while their opponents are diplomatic and pacifistic and look for peaceful solutions wherever possible. It is more likely that the Cardassians were losing, sued for or were offered peace, and the Federation agreed to it because they wanted to avoid further bloodshed.

[Zatman]

The Sheliak threat isn't explained well enough for me. Are they comparable with the Federation? Because we never hear of them again. It seems to me that the episode points to them being just some small time regional power who are threatening the big boys of the galaxy. I really cannot help but think that in any other episode the solution would have been to shoot the Sheliak and call it a day. They are about to kill 15,000 Federation citizens after all so it is very much a self-defence judgement call.
This episode would have been much improved with the Cardassians or Romulans. With them, it is clearly established why a military option is unacceptable and you can imagine the Federation signing some silly treaty with them.

I agree with Chuck. This is an underwhelming episode. The stakes are poorly laid out and relies on the characters not acting the way they normally would.

You're not wrong, they weren't explained well. But they didn't really have to be. Some throwaway lines about the Sheliak/Federation meeting and why there's a treaty would have been nice, but even so, this wouldn't be something the Federation can come at with force. I strongly disagree that any other episode would have involved destruction of a colony ship. No matter what led to the treaty, or what you think of the superiority of the Federation, it's still a treaty, and it's implied, if not outright stated, that the Sheliak were actually doing them a favor by notifying them.

[Lazerlike42]

I largely agree with the review here, though I would have given it a 5 rather than a 4. I think he hits the nail right on the head: the stuff on the Enterprise is interesting and I'd say actually quite good, but the stuff on the planet is pretty boring. I'd say 5 instead of 4 because I think the stuff on the ship is good enough to make me want to watch the episode, so I don't think it makes sense to give it a below average rating, but the episode is held back by the pretty boring planetside plotline.

[McAvoy]

With the Maquis, the Cardassians are definitely weaker than the Federation and they are dealing with multiple colonies across several former Federation worlds, and many Maquis are former Federation officers which makes the Federation even more involved. The Cardassians have already fought and lost a war with the Federation before so with all these things factored in, it makes sense why they would be less overtly genocidal from a purely pragmatic point of view.

In this episode, we don't know the strength of the Sheliak relative to the Federation (it could also just be a geography thing- maybe the planet in EOC is really far away) but they are only dealing with a single colony that only has a tenuous tie to the Federation from long ago. It's possible the Sheliak assumed that the Federation knew about this colony and that was the only reason they contacted them- if they thought the Federation knew nothing they might just have obliterated them without anyone knowing, depending on whether they are more "Lawful" or more "Evil". Unlike the Maquis, these colonists have zero f*cking chance at saving themselves from the Sheliak regardless of how strong or weak the Sheliak are compared to the Federation- it seems more likely that the Sheliak were just worried about provoking a war.

Eh, the Cardassians didn't lose their war with the Federation. They lost Bajor but that was because the civilian government said the war was too costly and the Cardassians got plenty of disputed planets out of the deal.

Cal Hudson even says the treaty was overly generous and the Cardassians wanted to preserve it because it was such a sweet deal. Which implies to me they got the better of it.

I don't think that the loss of Bajor was a direct consequence of the Federation-Cardassian War- as I understand it, it was purely about border disputes and the Treaty established firm borders that left Federation citizens on the wrong side, leading to the Maquis. The Cardassians simply abandoned Bajor due to it being too costly, with the war probably just adding to the expenses.

Hudson isn't exactly an unbiased source since he is Maquis- of course he thinks that the Cardassians got off lightly. He probably blames them for starting the war in the first place (which is probably true to be honest), so the fact that they were left with worlds at all is probably grating. But that doesn't mean that the Cardassians achieved their nebulous military objectives, whatever those were.

What we do know is that the Cardassian Union was in a bad enough state after the war that they felt compelled to leave Bajor, and then they went through a period of political instability and unrest. We also know that they are militarily weaker than the Federation and there is no way that they could have won, while their opponents are diplomatic and pacifistic and look for peaceful solutions wherever possible. It is more likely that the Cardassians were losing, sued for or were offered peace, and the Federation agreed to it because they wanted to avoid further bloodshed.

Yeah I think Bajor and ending the war with the Federation were seperate. More than likely connected politically though. Bajor was lost due to the Bajoran underground but I feel politically Cardassians were tired from the war with the Federation and then having to deal with losing lives from the Occupation of Bajor.

I think if Bajor being given up by the Cardassians due to the treaty we would havd heard about it in DS9 scenes when they talk about the Maquis and the Bajoran underground.

One thing about the Cardassian war with the Federation, it never felt like a real war. Or at least on thethe Federation. It felt like a border war with the Federation just sending out what was needed to repel the Cardassians.

I mean we saw only two versions of the Cardassian capital ships. The Galor and Keldon class. In its first appearance, the Galor was nonchalantly defeated by the Enterprise like it was a simple exercise in weapons targeting. The Keldon class we have no idea the capabilities but most assume it's a more powerful varient to the Galor class.

There is also various statements that never to underestimate the technical skill of Starfleet and that their engineers can make things out of rocks.

So yeah, I think the Sheliak is probably a regional power with a handful of systems trying to exercise their power against the Federation. Most likely, the Federation didn't care that much about that sort of thing, created that treaty since the Sheliak wanted worlds where humans would struggle on.

[CharlesPhipps]

I mean it's a big galaxy. You could add a dozen powers as large as the Klingons and no one would notice or care.

After all, they added the Cardassians.

[Jonathan101]

One thing about the Cardassian war with the Federation, it never felt like a real war. Or at least on thethe Federation. It felt like a border war with the Federation just sending out what was needed to repel the Cardassians.

I mean we saw only two versions of the Cardassian capital ships. The Galor and Keldon class. In its first appearance, the Galor was nonchalantly defeated by the Enterprise like it was a simple exercise in weapons targeting. The Keldon class we have no idea the capabilities but most assume it's a more powerful varient to the Galor class.

There is also various statements that never to underestimate the technical skill of Starfleet and that their engineers can make things out of rocks.

Well, the war lasted for decades and a lot of Starfleet officers have bitter memories of it. I think it is equivalent to Iraq or Afghanistan for the USA today, except that the Cardassians were stronger than Saddam or the Taliban.

Would have been devastating to those caught up in it, especially with reference to Cardassian "massacres".

[Frustration]

Plus, there are undoubtedly children on the colony. Even if all the adults chose to stay and face the Sheliak, what about those too young to make an informed choice?

That's a problem with every possible situation: people who have no say in the matter will be affected by the choices made by the people who do. Even if we arbitrarily decided that everyone must have a voice, there will be humans who don't and can't have an opinion - infants at the very least.

I'm generally of the belief that children are much more capable than they're given credit for - and adults are much less capable than they wish to believe - but your objection doesn't carry a lot of weight. It's inevitable, unavoidable, and therefore irrelevant.

[Fianna]

If we were only looking at mentally competent adults, it might be feasible to go, "Everyone who wants to live, come with us. Everyone who'd rather stay and face the Sheliak ... well, it's your life."

But if someone is incapable of voicing their opinion on the matter, then there are different views about who has the right to decide for them. Some say their family members should have complete say, while others would say that, barring any indications from them otherwise, the assumption should be that they'd want to live.

Like, suppose a child falls down and hits their head, leaving them unconscious and with a nasty head wound. Their parents, for religious reasons, don't believe in medicine, and don't want doctors to treat their child. Should they be allowed to let their child go uncared for, with the wound in their head festering and likely killing them?