TOS: A Taste of Armageddon

[Mickey_Rat15]

We already had mandates that children must receive certain vaccines before they can attend school.

The required vaccines are for dangerous childhood diseases.

Unless the child is immunocompromised, Covid is a mild, non-deadly disease. The side effects of vaccination may be a greater risk than the disease, for this particular disease.

[Frustration]

We already know vaccination isn't going to wipe out the disease. (Hell, we knew that before, but we're having confirmation of what our reason informed us of in the real world now.) They're going to boosters for the new strains... how long will it be before the effective immunity from *those* shots dwindles to the point of uselessness?

It's the Sunk Cost Fallacy in action. We can't bring ourselves to acknowledge that our entire strategy was disastrously costly and accomplished nothing, so we keep pretending that it's effective - and that people should be forced to comply with our effective strategy.

[Fianna]

And children don't have to attend schools. They can be homeschooled instead.
[/quote]

For many families, homeschooling in addition to their regular work schedule is simply not a practical alternative.

We already know vaccination isn't going to wipe out the disease. (Hell, we knew that before, but we're having confirmation of what our reason informed us of in the real world now.) They're going to boosters for the new strains... how long will it be before the effective immunity from *those* shots dwindles to the point of uselessness?

It's the Sunk Cost Fallacy in action. We can't bring ourselves to acknowledge that our entire strategy was disastrously costly and accomplished nothing, so we keep pretending that it's effective - and that people should be forced to comply with our effective strategy.

By that logic, are flu vaccines an ineffective strategy, since the flu is still around, and develops new strains every couple years?

[TGLS]

We already know vaccination isn't going to wipe out the disease.

Yeah, just look at all those variants coming out of highly vaccinated countries like Chile and Cambodia.

[Frustration]

For many families, homeschooling in addition to their regular work schedule is simply not a practical alternative.

Where is it written that people are entitled to practical alternatives? If they want their kids to attend public schools, they have to be given immunizations against common illnesses that could easily spread in those schools. Don't want the immunizations? Fine - they can arrange some other form of schooling. Don't want to do that?

Then they're free to spend a weekend with the Pain Monster.

By that logic, are flu vaccines an ineffective strategy, since the flu is still around, and develops new strains every couple years?

Flu vaccines should be given to those that have a particular vulnerability to influenza and are at risk from respiratory illness generally. Otherwise? Yes, they're not very effective. To the degree that they encourage people to neglect other safeguards and act as though flu were not a concern, they provide ideal circumstances for new strains to emerge and spread. And they're not all that great at eliminating any given strain. I once engaged in an online argument with a person claiming to be a doctor who insisted that we could make flu extinct if everyone were vaccinated. That's just not the way things work.

[TGLS]

For many families, homeschooling in addition to their regular work schedule is simply not a practical alternative.

Where is it written that people are entitled to practical alternatives? If they want their kids to attend public schools, they have to be given immunizations against common illnesses that could easily spread in those schools. Don't want the immunizations? Fine - they can arrange some other form of schooling. Don't want to do that?

Then they're free to spend a weekend with the Pain Monster.

Sure. Then if you don't get vaccinated you can lose your job and stay inside for the next whenever. Don't want that?

Get the fucking jab.

[McAvoy]

For many families, homeschooling in addition to their regular work schedule is simply not a practical alternative.

Where is it written that people are entitled to practical alternatives? If they want their kids to attend public schools, they have to be given immunizations against common illnesses that could easily spread in those schools. Don't want the immunizations? Fine - they can arrange some other form of schooling. Don't want to do that?

Then they're free to spend a weekend with the Pain Monster.

By that logic, are flu vaccines an ineffective strategy, since the flu is still around, and develops new strains every couple years?

Flu vaccines should be given to those that have a particular vulnerability to influenza and are at risk from respiratory illness generally. Otherwise? Yes, they're not very effective. To the degree that they encourage people to neglect other safeguards and act as though flu were not a concern, they provide ideal circumstances for new strains to emerge and spread. And they're not all that great at eliminating any given strain. I once engaged in an online argument with a person claiming to be a doctor who insisted that we could make flu extinct if everyone were vaccinated. That's just not the way things work.

Hardly anyone took precautions when it came to the flu, vaccine or not.

[Beastro]

I feel like your assumption that there was a grand overarching plan that believed the Soviet Union would collapse on its own is something that is hindsight based. The shock of the sudden dissolution of the Soviet Union both economically as well as socially was something that was NOT predicted by the West but happened suddenly with vast geopolitical ramifications.

To be frank, the behind the scenes documentation of the CIA and Pentagon shows they believed a lot of the Soviet Union's propaganda and that they were far stronger than they actually were.

Sorry, I missed this one.

That propaganda is precisely why they went with Containment. The idea wasn't a grand overarching plan, it was that it seemed like the Soviet Union could not be stopped short of massive retaliatory nuclear strikes (which NATO was dominant in in the 50s; had WWIII happened then the US would have been untouched.... Europe OTOH...) and that was the only thing holding them at bay. God forbid if they could narrow that gap because then they'd have both parity in nukes that could reach CONUS and an unstoppable conventional horde.

The hope was that they were a wildfire. They'd burn themselves out eventually even if no one knew when. That is where criticism of Containment came in. No one knew for certain if it was even accurate and it was felt to be a self-defeating delusion which rationalized already giving up to people like Kennedy: the US had to fight back to make them fall.... just not enough to provoke WWIII.

[Beastro]

We already had mandates that children must receive certain vaccines before they can attend school.

Vaccinations that have had proper clinical trails spanning years, not ones that have been rushed through human testing without animal testing done. Nothing is said about the potential long term consequences.

I actually hope I'm proven wrong, because I really do not want wide spread harm coming from a simple lack of clinical trials. If I'm right it will destroy utterly most people's faith not simply in government authority but science's ability to claim things with confidence.

"Oh, they say we shouldn't eat lead paint? Well, you gotta remember these were the people that fucked up those vaccinations they forced on everybody and look what it did. I'll trust myself that what's sweet is good for me."

[CharlesPhipps]

Vaccinations that have had proper clinical trails spanning years, not ones that have been rushed through human testing without animal testing done. Nothing is said about the potential long term consequences.

I actually hope I'm proven wrong, because I really do not want wide spread harm coming from a simple lack of clinical trials. If I'm right it will destroy utterly most people's faith not simply in government authority but science's ability to claim things with confidence.

"Oh, they say we shouldn't eat lead paint? Well, you gotta remember these were the people that fucked up those vaccinations they forced on everybody and look what it did. I'll trust myself that what's sweet is good for me."

I mean, there's a reason why it was stated it would take a year to get the vaccine working and tested and why it...took a year.