Lower deck episode 3?

[Mabus]

Mabus, learn how to use paragraphs. Also, the show is great.

My post is actually shorter than my usual ramblings. Not sure what your problem is.

The problem is it's one blob of text that has too few line breaks to be read easily. This post, which is longer, is much more readable solely because it breaks up thoughts with line breaks, though it could be improved by adding a second line break after each line break.

OK, I'll write my posts in a more ordered manner regardless of their length if that's better.

[griffeytrek]

There's an interesting and not completely unfounded fan theory about that. We may have met two of the characters before. Once you see it, it just clicks and you can't unsee it.

Well now I need to hear this theory!

It's actually quite simple. And there seem to be enough breadcrumbs sprinkled throughout the show to support it.
WARNING SPOILERS!























Where did Mariner grow up? She's been everywhere, seen everything, done it all, at her age? She knows Riker well. And Troi. Her mother Captain Freeman also knows Riker and Troi. Riker views himself as Freeman's mentor (Freeman remembers it differently) . Freeman is good friends with (now Captain) Sonya Gomez. They appear to be peers, although Gomez is doing a bit better career wise.

Remember the Grand Conceit of the Galaxy class. A Starship with families! What would a young child raised in that environment come out like? Constant Red Alerts. Being Kidnapped by societies with no kids. Aliens doing weird experiments on them from subspace. Threatened with execution for stepping on the grass. Reality reassembling itself every three days. The constant time loops. And then just when you think it can't get any worse, the First Officer lets his Girlfriend drive, and she plows you into a planet.

What would a child raised on Picard's Enterprise-D look like? Becket Mariner

[griffeytrek]

And I have a feeling that PIC will end up a brighter show before it finally ends too.

They just released the season 2 trailer for Picard this week. It's definitely pushing the Membaberries to maximum warp. You can see them diving much more into a TNG era aesthetic. And while the overall plot looks suspiciously like they tossed any number of old Trek plots, Star Trek IV, First Contact, Yesterday's Enterprise, Timeless, etc into a blender and hit frape'. You also get the feeling that they know this and are being up front about it. Even directly calling it out. I have no idea if this will be good or bad, but it at least has me a little curious. Which is more than the finale of Season 1 left me.

[CharlesPhipps]

Lower Decks is, IMHO, the point when NuTrek killed any chance the hatedom would win. Much of the hatedom was driven by the statement that Star Trek was out of the hands of fans and that it was corporate driven bullshit.

No one can seriously claim the shows are made by anything but die-hard Trek fans.

You may like or dislike Lower Decks but the people who made this show are ENORMOUS fucking nerds.

No. This was the point that the writers who gave us ''two dicked Klingons who don't look, act or feel like Klingons'' realised that people do not want a Star Trek show that isn't Star Trek.
The hatedom won. Oh... you ain't going to like me saying that now are you. But its true. It was the people who kicked up a fuss about the bullshit of early STD that got us STD season 3 plus. That got us Lower Decks. And I have a feeling that PIC will end up a brighter show before it finally ends too.

Sure, clearspira. You won. CBS totally gave into the haters.

The wokedom is gone.

DIscovery was a massive failure and Picard will fix all of its flaws. Lower Decks is a direct criticism of Nu Trek.

*gives him a cookie*

[Riedquat]

Summary:

"The show makes a lot of references and jokes and that's bad because it shouldn't be a show about references and jokes but instead something else entirely. Despite, you know, the show being a comedy."

That's definitely a problem with Lower Decks. Some are fine but too often it feels like it's relying on references for a cheap laugh. The number seems to be (unevenly) reducing though, and the best episodes (some of which are very good) are the ones that rely the least on them, although can still throw in the occasional well-timed reference.

[Hero_Of_Shadows]

Starting with 3 is a good choice.

Hell I'd argue for starting with ​Much Ado About Boimler or Veritas towards the end of the season and then thinking about backtracking only for completeness. Thankfully season 2 is way better with only one unfortunate episode coming off as way too Rick and Morty.

I agree starting out with Veritas would have been a good choice as well, I love that episode since it managed the difficult feat of giving all 4 main characters equal narrative focus.

I also agree that that the moral of the episode "leave buffer time in so that you don't burn out and if the unexpected happens" doesn't require a extreme approach "estimate to the second your men are machines that never tire out"/"no estimations whatsoever" and that they went with such extremes for the purpose of comedy.

I might be reading too much between the lines but I think Chuck allready has a special in mind on Mariner/Boimler exploring how much they're built as foils and compliments to each other.

[Deledrius]

I'm glad I was wrong about Chuck's ability to tolerate Mariner. It's better for his sanity, and probably will make for better reviews, too, if he isn't perceiving her as the show's Neelix.

I'm pulling for Season 3 to continue the (still-too-slow) trend of developing nuance in the character interactions. The show was definitely better on a second watch.

No one can seriously claim the shows are made by anything but die-hard Trek fans.

You may like or dislike Lower Decks but the people who made this show are ENORMOUS fucking nerds.

It's also a good example of the danger of having the giant nerds running the show they're big fans of. I find it ironic that normally this is considered (often rightfully) a bad idea.

The thing is, they're clearly capable. Which makes me wonder if the wince-inducing pandering is a lack of confidence in the audience, much like the overt comedy early in Orville's S1.

[CharlesPhipps]

It's also a good example of the danger of having the giant nerds running the show they're big fans of. I find it ironic that normally this is considered (often rightfully) a bad idea.

The thing is, they're clearly capable. Which makes me wonder if the wince-inducing pandering is a lack of confidence in the audience, much like the overt comedy early in Orville's S1.

I feel like I just have a different sense of humor than some fans because it's one of the main appeals of Lower Decks to me that I have to stretch my fandom to remember what they're talking about and consider that "fun."

I also think the Orville is now something I just want cancelled because if they're going to make a serious show out of it, I have no interest in watching it. I only care about it as an office comedy in space. Not as trying even harder to be Star Trek.

[Deledrius]

I doubt The Orville will ever be a serious drama. The blend of office comedy in space they have is too natural for the people making it.

It was the forced humor in the first half of Season 1 that I'm glad has evened out.

[cloudkitt]

Starting later than the first couple episodes makes sense to me. I found the early episodes of season 1 to be WAY too manic. Even if a joke was funny, you had no time at all to actually enjoy it, because three more things had already happened. I thought it got a better about that later in the season, and hopefully that continued into season 2 (which I haven't seen yet), because if nothing else, at least it's more enjoyable than Picard and Discovery.