SG1: Secrets

[CrypticMirror]

Stupid question: was it ever established, definitively, not to be a coincidence?

It was not. Only time he's mentioned again is when O'Neil and Homer Simpsons share memories, and Homer seems convinced the NID did it (Which feels like the logical answer).

I'll say that this episode benefits from being early in the show's run, relatively (Season 2).

Coz saying Hammond was even slightly cognizant of the murder of a journalist and buried the thing sounds incredibly out of character for the man. That someone else did it and Hammond didn't know? Yeah, I can buy that. But Hammond being in on the thing is widely out of character.

I'm not sure, I'm told there was a line of dialogue in Season Eight that had it be a "rogue" NID op. However, I don't recall that and nobody seems to be able to say what episode it was. It certainly sounds plausible for a late season thing, people were filling in blanks, and grabbing bits of the early show to fill out episodes. It is the sort of thing some little completist would glom onto, in their quest to remove ambiguity without understanding why ambiguity is often a good thing.

Citizen Joe

The guy saying it someone with O'Neill's memories. So he doesn't have any insider info and presumably is voicing Jack's own theories.

Heck, Jack's frankly more likely to shoot someone out of annoyance than Hammond would ever

Ah, that makes much more sense. Thank you.

[Ghilz]

When you think about it, if killing someone with a car was an option for Hammond, Senator Kinsey wouldn't have lived past season 1.

[Mabus]

Considering that not long ago the president had no problem essentially revoking the fundamental rights for a group of extremely advanced humans who had tech that allowed them to walk through walls, in order to send them to a black site where they would be forced to spend their entire life building tech for the Military, I have no doubt that someone from the higher ups freaked out when they heard some journalist got information about the Stargate Program and, given how fresh Goa'uld attack was in everyone's mind, demanded the problem be solved immediately, damn the costs.

If anything, the only reason there was a shift in a less aggressive policy is after Jacob joined the Tok'ra, I mean let's face it, the Tok'ra were the first real allies Earth ever made, and with one of ours in their ranks, it made it much easier to establish diplomatic relations, which changed the politics, as previously the only mission SGC had was to acquire advanced alien tech.

Later, in season 6, when that reporter gets a tip about the Prometheus project, the Military takes a different approach and even allows her to visit the shipyard as well as give her a tour of the spaceship, I believe it was in exchange for the source, don't recall all the details.

[Swiftbow]

Considering that not long ago the president had no problem essentially revoking the fundamental rights for a group of extremely advanced humans who had tech that allowed them to walk through walls, in order to send them to a black site where they would be forced to spend their entire life building tech for the Military, I have no doubt that someone from the higher ups freaked out when they heard some journalist got information about the Stargate Program and, given how fresh Goa'uld attack was in everyone's mind, demanded the problem be solved immediately, damn the costs.

If anything, the only reason there was a shift in a less aggressive policy is after Jacob joined the Tok'ra, I mean let's face it, the Tok'ra were the first real allies Earth ever made, and with one of ours in their ranks, it made it much easier to establish diplomatic relations, which changed the politics, as previously the only mission SGC had was to acquire advanced alien tech.

Later, in season 6, when that reporter gets a tip about the Prometheus project, the Military takes a different approach and even allows her to visit the shipyard as well as give her a tour of the spaceship, I believe it was in exchange for the source, don't recall all the details.

Did the President specifically sign off on the Tollan thing? I thought he was just "unavailable," which implied maybe it was being done under the radar. Then again, since the President (until Hayes) remains an unnamed/unseen character, it's hard to know very much about him beyond Hammond having some sort of relationship with him.

I do seem to recall that one of the reasons the Tollans were being shipped off, though, was because they had denied all other attempts to relocate them, and were generally unpleasant, uncooperative people. If they were going to demand settlement on Earth (which they kind of were until the Nox option presented itself), expecting something in return isn't that insane. Especially given the security risk they presented with the wall walking tech. (Which almost destroyed the entire Earth later on when the Tollans were compromised by Anubis.)

The Prometheus thing was basically an agreement to give that reporter exclusive rights to the story when it eventually was released. She didn't like it, but acquiesced to the considerable pressure from Major Davis, Carter, and her boss (who ended up being a sellout to the NID). The reporter later showed up a few times later, too, mostly in conjunction with other security leaks.

[clearspira]

Chuck makes a good point: hard to root for "the good guys" if they are running over innocent people just to keep the stargate secret.
Its better for the show if it was just a hit and run.

This is even worse than that episode of SGA where they threaten to torture Kavanagh because at least there you could MAYBE use a needs justify it excuse.

[BlackoutCreature2]

When you think about it, if killing someone with a car was an option for Hammond, Senator Kinsey wouldn't have lived past season 1.

I have to believe putting out a hit on a Senator is a hell of a lot harder then putting out one on a random journalist, even for the military.

[clearspira]

Considering that not long ago the president had no problem essentially revoking the fundamental rights for a group of extremely advanced humans who had tech that allowed them to walk through walls, in order to send them to a black site where they would be forced to spend their entire life building tech for the Military, I have no doubt that someone from the higher ups freaked out when they heard some journalist got information about the Stargate Program and, given how fresh Goa'uld attack was in everyone's mind, demanded the problem be solved immediately, damn the costs.

If anything, the only reason there was a shift in a less aggressive policy is after Jacob joined the Tok'ra, I mean let's face it, the Tok'ra were the first real allies Earth ever made, and with one of ours in their ranks, it made it much easier to establish diplomatic relations, which changed the politics, as previously the only mission SGC had was to acquire advanced alien tech.

Later, in season 6, when that reporter gets a tip about the Prometheus project, the Military takes a different approach and even allows her to visit the shipyard as well as give her a tour of the spaceship, I believe it was in exchange for the source, don't recall all the details.

Did the President specifically sign off on the Tollan thing? I thought he was just "unavailable," which implied maybe it was being done under the radar. Then again, since the President (until Hayes) remains an unnamed/unseen character, it's hard to know very much about him beyond Hammond having some sort of relationship with him.

I do seem to recall that one of the reasons the Tollans were being shipped off, though, was because they had denied all other attempts to relocate them, and were generally unpleasant, uncooperative people. If they were going to demand settlement on Earth (which they kind of were until the Nox option presented itself), expecting something in return isn't that insane. Especially given the security risk they presented with the wall walking tech. (Which almost destroyed the entire Earth later on when the Tollans were compromised by Anubis.)

The Prometheus thing was basically an agreement to give that reporter exclusive rights to the story when it eventually was released. She didn't like it, but acquiesced to the considerable pressure from Major Davis, Carter, and her boss (who ended up being a sellout to the NID). The reporter later showed up a few times later, too, mostly in conjunction with other security leaks.

The Tollans didn't help themselves though. They weren't just uncooperative, they were bigots. The snatch order only came after they refused to help us in any way. If they had just thrown us a bone - any bone - it wouldn't have happened. Especially as they ended up giving us the "fold spacing light comminicator thing" in the end.

And they didn't run when they had the chance. They could have left to the tribal planet and gated somewhere else from there. Instead their bigotry got in the way again.

[Mabus]

Did the President specifically sign off on the Tollan thing? I thought he was just "unavailable," which implied maybe it was being done under the radar. Then again, since the President (until Hayes) remains an unnamed/unseen character, it's hard to know very much about him beyond Hammond having some sort of relationship with him.

Yes. Maybourne clearly tells Hammond that he has the president's approval during the first briefing. Hammond is then seen talking to the president, and after the call, tells SG1 that the president gave Maybourne full authorization to relocate the Tollan survivors. Daniel gets up from his chair upon hearing this and after calling the whole thing "forced intellectual labor", rants "The Pentagon Intelligence, that I can understand... but the president? I voted for him!" So yeah, regardless if this was the president's or Maybourne's idea, the president himself is ultimately responsible for the situation.

I do seem to recall that one of the reasons the Tollans were being shipped off, though, was because they had denied all other attempts to relocate them, and were generally unpleasant, uncooperative people. If they were going to demand settlement on Earth (which they kind of were until the Nox option presented itself), expecting something in return isn't that insane. Especially given the security risk they presented with the wall walking tech. (Which almost destroyed the entire Earth later on when the Tollans were compromised by Anubis.)

I don't see how the Tollan being dicks is good enough reason to put them in some Nerd Guantanamo for the rest of their lives. And Hammond wanted them off the base after Omoc refused to talk to them, the moment the volcanoes on Tollan homeworld slowed down. Omoc did mention that a ship was coming to rescue them, so I imagine Hammond wanted to kill two birds with one stone by sending them back after Omoc was a dick.

And while Omoc was indeed extremely undiplomatic towards the two alien delegates, it's a bit hard to think that the Tollan group would ever be able to live on an essentially agrarian planet, I mean really, imagine having to live in a complete alien environment, one which, not long ago had a nasty infectious disease that was only cured by sheer luck mind you, without modern medicine being able to help you if you get sick from another horrible disease or some other preventable disease (how many of you would want to trade our modern civilization to live in the middle of the jungle without access to antibiotics or a decent dentist, raise your hand), without a proper infrastructure to continue building or maintaining their technology (Tollan technology was build around trinium which isn't available everywhere, and no trinium, no advanced technology), which could be conquered by the Goa'uld at any time, and they would adore to get their hands on Tollan technology or better yet, some Tollan hosts from which they could extract more advanced technology... yeah, not a great alternative.

Sure Omoc could have been less of a dick, but at least SGC were able to operate the Stargate while the pinnacle of Tuplo's civilization was a funny hat, which is why the Tollans didn't just demand to leave through the Stargate after a. And while the idea of allowing refuge on Earth for the Tollan was brought up, it got shot down immediately after Maybourne came. And let's face it: even if there wasn't Maybourne, the government would have spied on them for the rest of their lives trying to understand their technology, so they would quickly hate staying on Earth.

[Frustration]

The Tollans didn't help themselves though. They weren't just uncooperative, they were bigots. The snatch order only came after they refused to help us in any way. If they had just thrown us a bone - any bone - it wouldn't have happened.

The Tollans had just been rescued from the destruction of two habitable worlds. Destructions that they caused, by giving advanced technology to a civilization less technically and socially advanced than themselves, which used it to wage war and rendered two planets (including the Tollan homeworld) lifeless.

Their fear of giving technology to Earth is both understandable, rationally justifiable, and probably correct.

Incidentally, it seems pretty clear that they didn't have a "foldspace" communication system. They were almost certainly communicating with an alien observation probe present in the solar system - probably in Earth orbit, in fact. Since the Nox are known to be cloaking technologies (for lack of a better term) far beyond Earth science, the existence of such a probe should be no surprise.

That's the most obvious interpretation of the bending stick metaphor: light takes a long time to reach a distant target, but if that target comes closer, light becomes a viable message medium. Contacting the Nox doesn't require sending a signal to their homeworld, merely to their local observation probe.