VOY: Dragon's Teeth

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McAvoy
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Re: VOY: Dragon's Teeth

Post by McAvoy »

Clearspira is correct about the reprogramming part. One of the big things the US did to Japan was demystify the Emperor. Hardly anyone ever heard his voice before he made the speech about surrendering. Then he did a tour of Japan personally. That was intentionally done.

Japan was looking to surrender. Sure. They were but on their own terms and not unconditionally like what the US wanted. In fact they were desperate for a huge victory even if decimated their military just so they could go to the table with smidgen of honor.
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Re: VOY: Dragon's Teeth

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clearspira wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 8:19 pm




The Japanese would not have surrendered through normal warfare alone. This is true values dissonance at work here. Those two atom bombs saved more lives then they ended.
Japan, a collection of resource poor islands worse off in natural resources than even the UK, wouldn't even have to be invaded. Japan had no navy left, it had no airforce left. Japan was done. It could have been blockaded and left to stagnate back into feudalism. Event he talk of invasion was more about MacArthur's ego and that Eisenhower got an invasion in Europe than it was about military strategy. Hell, even if it had to be invaded, that could have been left to Stalin to use up his troops instead of Allied ones; two birds, one stone. Not like maintaining a garrison there would have been cheap or strategically advantageous for Stalin and the USSR's version of communism. The bomb saved no lives and was all about showing off the technological terror that America had created but didn't get a chance to use against Hitler. Blockade it for a pittance of military spend, come back in a generation to collect the tribute, and it would have been cheaper in dollars and lives than either the bomb or invasion. Just not as emotionally satisfying, smarter but not as satisfying.
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Re: VOY: Dragon's Teeth

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The zeal of authoritarian fascist governments isn't something that I'm understating. I'm just saying that Japan was already on its last legs and even they were aware of it.
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Re: VOY: Dragon's Teeth

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Though it's not like a blockade would have been without casualties. As-is, Post-War Japan was plagued by mass starvation; if cut off from all foreign aid and resources, that would have gotten a whole lot worse.
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Re: VOY: Dragon's Teeth

Post by McAvoy »

CrypticMirror wrote: Sun May 07, 2023 2:27 pm
clearspira wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 8:19 pm




The Japanese would not have surrendered through normal warfare alone. This is true values dissonance at work here. Those two atom bombs saved more lives then they ended.
Japan, a collection of resource poor islands worse off in natural resources than even the UK, wouldn't even have to be invaded. Japan had no navy left, it had no airforce left. Japan was done. It could have been blockaded and left to stagnate back into feudalism. Event he talk of invasion was more about MacArthur's ego and that Eisenhower got an invasion in Europe than it was about military strategy. Hell, even if it had to be invaded, that could have been left to Stalin to use up his troops instead of Allied ones; two birds, one stone. Not like maintaining a garrison there would have been cheap or strategically advantageous for Stalin and the USSR's version of communism. The bomb saved no lives and was all about showing off the technological terror that America had created but didn't get a chance to use against Hitler. Blockade it for a pittance of military spend, come back in a generation to collect the tribute, and it would have been cheaper in dollars and lives than either the bomb or invasion. Just not as emotionally satisfying, smarter but not as satisfying.
No.

First off there was the idea that the US population with the war in Europe over to lose motivation if the war against Japan goes on for too long. A blockade like you describe would do that. It would be drawn out and perhaps to the point where Japan could do anything.

Letting Stalin invade Japan was out of the question. Do we even know there were plans drawn up for the Soviets to invade the Japanese islands or were they content to take the other Asian territories. The Allies were already looking at the world post-war and Stalin getting a grip on Japan was not part of that.
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