Babylon 5: The Face of the Enemy

[Linkara]

https://sfdebris.com/videos/babylon5/b5s4e18.php

Have to strongly disagree with Chuck's conclusions here about the arc making Garibaldi unlikeable. There was such immense exultation and relief when what happened to him was revealed. As his follow-up actions in the rest of the arc show, this WAS mind control. We saw a lot of the build to his frustration early in the arc - paranoia about Lorien, alienating his friends because innocent questions and statements were taken the wrong way. As Bester said, periodically he would transmit new instructions, adjustments to his programming, and just creating a tenser and tenser atmosphere for him until he was basically not the same person anymore without him even realizing it. Garibaldi is a good guy and he honestly thought he was doing the right thing - even when betraying Sheridan he knew how big a betrayal it was and compared himself to Judas. Without the reprogramming, he wouldn't have done it, but Harlan Ellison and Bester screwing with his mind tipped it to juuuust the right angle to make him do something he knew was wrong.

And it was so satisfying to have an answer, to know that the real Garibaldi was back and going to rejoin the good guys. And it was so dramatic because we didn't know how that would happen - as said, Ivanova was ignoring his communication and ordered him shot on sight if he showed up on Babylon 5. And the writing positioning Lyta and Franklin on Mars for the endgame of the arc was perfect for resolving that - great narrative cohesion to tie the subplots together and move towards the finale.

Plus, the reveal was so good that despite the hintings from the transmission and the mystery of what happened to Garibaldi after he was taken by the Shadows, it was so long ago that the viewer had forgotten about all that.

[Deledrius]

I'm so glad to hear someone else say this arc just didn't work for them. The concept is an interesting one, but it went too far in making me simply not enjoy watching the character. Rather than be an intriguing mystery, it just felt like throwing out his character entirely; in the end, leaving him to remember it all is the worst of both worlds when it comes to being able to recover from this plot. This isn't to say the underlying narrative wasn't a good one, but just that the final execution of it did not work for me at all, and there was no catharsis in the reveal. It was simply an explanation after-the-fact.

[Winter]

https://sfdebris.com/videos/babylon5/b5s4e18.php

Have to strongly disagree with Chuck's conclusions here about the arc making Garibaldi unlikeable. There was such immense exultation and relief when what happened to him was revealed. As his follow-up actions in the rest of the arc show, this WAS mind control. We saw a lot of the build to his frustration early in the arc - paranoia about Lorien, alienating his friends because innocent questions and statements were taken the wrong way. As Bester said, periodically he would transmit new instructions, adjustments to his programming, and just creating a tenser and tenser atmosphere for him until he was basically not the same person anymore without him even realizing it. Garibaldi is a good guy and he honestly thought he was doing the right thing - even when betraying Sheridan he knew how big a betrayal it was and compared himself to Judas. Without the reprogramming, he wouldn't have done it, but Harlan Ellison and Bester screwing with his mind tipped it to juuuust the right angle to make him do something he knew was wrong.

And it was so satisfying to have an answer, to know that the real Garibaldi was back and going to rejoin the good guys. And it was so dramatic because we didn't know how that would happen - as said, Ivanova was ignoring his communication and ordered him shot on sight if he showed up on Babylon 5. And the writing positioning Lyta and Franklin on Mars for the endgame of the arc was perfect for resolving that - great narrative cohesion to tie the subplots together and move towards the finale.

Plus, the reveal was so good that despite the hintings from the transmission and the mystery of what happened to Garibaldi after he was taken by the Shadows, it was so long ago that the viewer had forgotten about all that.

I can see your point but my issue with it is as follows.

1: We Already Know Something is Wrong

For me knowing something is wrong with Garibaldi means that I'm just waiting for the characters to catch up to what I already know and I already knew it was Psi Corps because we saw a Psi Corps Member show up during Garibaldi's "Reprogramming".

2: I can't stand Garibaldi's personality

He's acting so aggressive and so unlikable that it makes me wonder why no one else besides Zack is asking questions about it. At most they offer up a mild protest to his actions but then move on to something else and it's not often Galaxy Wide Threats (though slipping with your girlfriend while others watch can be really distracting).

I guess for me, it's like when Jaime hit Brenda in Blue Beetle during the New 52, Luke contemplating killing his nephew in his sleep or Superman killing Zod (though not nearly as bad as some of those). I get what the story is TRYING to do but it's just not something I enjoy as it makes it harder to get invested because what it's doing to a character I love.

[clearspira]

I believe TVTropes calls this: ''Strawman Has A Point''. Because the thing is, Garibaldi's right: Babylon 5 is a military dictatorship. There isn't any more freedom on B5 then there is on Earth. The media is run by Sheridan, the guys with the guns report to Sheridan, the rules are made by Sheridan, the warships orbiting the station report to either Sheridan or Sheridan's wife.

Sheridan unlike Clark is a benevolent leader. And like any military dictatorship, that fact is something that is only a comfort when said benevolent leader is still feeling benevolent.

Its a moot point because brainwashing. But I think the show never actually attempts to address what Garibaldi is saying and the arc is all the weaker for it, writing it off as the aggressive rantings of a madman instead of the concerns of someone who was once nearly killed by the Night Watch. He knows exactly where this sort of cult of personality can lead.

[Frustration]

And what was the station before Sheridan broke away from Earth?

That's right - a military dictatorship.

[clearspira]

And what was the station before Sheridan broke away from Earth?

That's right - a military dictatorship.

Replacing a military dictatorship with a military dictatorship is not an argument against Garibaldi's concerns. If anything, it highlights them. Fight Clark, get a dictatorship. Fight Sheridan, get a dictatorship. Do nothing, get a dictatorship.

There is no obvious side for freedom and democracy unless you happen to be able to see through the fourth wall AKA be the viewer. The people living in this universe are not privy to the same information that we are and have forces actively working against them to find out the truth.

[Frustration]

There couldn't be a side for "freedom and democracy" because the whole point of the show was "heroes and villains" - individuals who, at critical moments in history, tipped the scales and determined the courses of civilizations, even entire species.

Even though the show stressed that there wasn't necessarily anything special about the individuals - just their place within events - and that they would be replaced by someone else, the masses of people still had no agency. They were just puppets of fate and the protagonists.