TNG: Sins of the Father

[pilight]

Picard in his prime would kick Archer's ass without breaking a sweat. Archer sucked anytime it came to fisticuffs. Hell I'd give even Harry Kim a chance against him.

I tend to agree. I'd argue however, that Picard met something that drained fighter-levels somewhere between the Nausicaan's stabbing him and the first time we meet him as Captain of the Enterprise.

Maybe a giant chest wound? Massive cardiac trauma is nature's way of telling you to slow down, after all.

Turning 60 can also affect your fighting

[Mindworm]

Picard in his prime would kick Archer's ass without breaking a sweat. Archer sucked anytime it came to fisticuffs. Hell I'd give even Harry Kim a chance against him.

I tend to agree. I'd argue however, that Picard met something that drained fighter-levels somewhere between the Nausicaan's stabbing him and the first time we meet him as Captain of the Enterprise.

Maybe a giant chest wound? Massive cardiac trauma is nature's way of telling you to slow down, after all.

Turning 60 can also affect your fighting

You forget Rule No. 1:

Never act incautiously when confronted by a little bald wrinkly smiling man.

[BlackoutCreature2]

Late to the party, I know, but there could be a more political reason for Worf to pick Picard. Perhaps they all believe that a Klingon assassin would be less likely to make a move on such a high profile Starfleet officer.

[McAvoy]

Late to the party, I know, but there could be a more political reason for Worf to pick Picard. Perhaps they all believe that a Klingon assassin would be less likely to make a move on such a high profile Starfleet officer.

It may very well be that. Also we are talking about Klingon Empire's Head Government. Their Capital. Picard is the Captain of the Federation Flagship who in his own right an established diplomat.

Riker probably would have been fine too. He is of course 2nd in command of the Federation Flagship. He does have prior experience being on a Klingon vessel. He is younger too.

I think it just comes down to rank and experience in these diplomatic situations.

[clearspira]

Picard, Riker and Sisko perhaps more than any other humans understand how to handle the Klingons - you play along with them. If they give you a shelf to sleep on? It is the best and most awesome shelf in the history of the galaxy. If they give you a plate of live gagh for breakfast? You accept it happily and smile with glee.

That is how you get a Klingon to respect you. You confront their expectations of you being weak and prove them wrong.

The TOS crew in Star Trek 6 didn't work that one out. They went to that diplomatic meal like the biggest group of snobs that you've ever met. They couldn't keep the disgust off their faces at some points and even brought up Hitler(!)

Even Archer of all people got closer to working this trick out than Kirk did.

TL;DR Picard is a great choice for this mission. I would only say that Riker and Sisko would be better choices as Picard's age makes him less likely to win a fight.

[pilight]

Kirk had been indoctrinated to see Klingons as the enemy for his entire life. It's understandable that he had difficulty accepting and understanding them as people.

[Riedquat]

Picard, Riker and Sisko perhaps more than any other humans understand how to handle the Klingons - you play along with them. If they give you a shelf to sleep on? It is the best and most awesome shelf in the history of the galaxy. If they give you a plate of live gagh for breakfast? You accept it happily and smile with glee.

That is how you get a Klingon to respect you. You confront their expectations of you being weak and prove them wrong.

I always found it a bit of an issue with Trek at various points to be honest - diplomacy is sucking up to whatever nonsense the other side comes up with?

I'm not sure that the Klingons would necessarily respect that, rather than standing up for yourself. There's a fine line there, but finding that line is what diplomacy's about.

[Deledrius]

Kirk had been indoctrinated to see Klingons as the enemy for his entire life. It's understandable that he had difficulty accepting and understanding them as people.

That's the thing that always feels a bit off about ST:TUC. Kirk is smarter than that, and more capable of handling a situation like this.

If he hadn't been, he would have failed several times over the course of the show, sometimes fatally.

It's absolutely an understandable flaw, but it's one that contradicts established elements of his character. He'd never win a game of fizzbin like this.

[MightyDavidson]

Kirk had been indoctrinated to see Klingons as the enemy for his entire life. It's understandable that he had difficulty accepting and understanding them as people.

That's the thing that always feels a bit off about ST:TUC. Kirk is smarter than that, and more capable of handling a situation like this.

If he hadn't been, he would have failed several times over the course of the show, sometimes fatally.

It's absolutely an understandable flaw, but it's one that contradicts established elements of his character. He'd never win a game of fizzbin like this.

Wasn't the issue Kirk still being pissed about the murder of his son in the third movie? Like he was trying his very best to manage the diplomacy he was normally fairly good at but that particular tragedy was making it hard to deal with them?

[Deledrius]

That is the given motive, yes, and to their credit it's a strong one. How convincing of a motive this is will definitely vary for different members of the audience.

As I said, for me, it's just a bit off. I don't have trouble with taking the film at face value that this is the reason, but it does seem harder to justify if taken as a whole since his relationship with David was equally weak. After all, it's entirely possible and realistic for someone to behave this way, even for someone who has always been perhaps too good at burying his personal feelings if they conflict with upholding his values.

In the end, it's all in the service of telling a positive character arc for Kirk in how he deals with the conflict and works through his own doubts and shortcomings, so I think it's a worthwhile bending of the characterization.