Return of The Jedi

[Alinis]

I actually liked the original ending song for return of the Jedi while in general I didn't like the additions and changes to the end.

I just can't help to think what happened next was storm troopers gunning down the crowds as local imperial forces stepped in 'to restore order'.

[Deledrius]

I just can't help to think what happened next was storm troopers gunning down the crowds as local imperial forces stepped in 'to restore order'.

Before the Sequel Trilogy, this would have been considered a pessimistic reading that dismissed the point and tone of the films: the Rebels finally managed to overthrow the Emperor and his fleet as well as his super-weapon for good. It was an ending where it may take a while to clean up the Empire's mess and get the Senate back on its feet, but the hope provided by the Battle for Endor was enough to finally turn the tide and bring peace and justice back to the Galaxy.

Thanks to the Sequel Trilogy, we now know that all of that was for naught, and every victory was in vain, as there is no defeating the evil in the Galaxy. They always have an even bigger super-weapon somehow, just stashed away for a rainy day, requiring resources that even the Empire probably couldn't have mustered. We learn that destroying that weapon just makes them angry but doesn't impact their ability to make war at all. Hope is a pointless thing to have, the rebuilt society and government has been destroyed, and the remaining people willing to continue this hopeless fight have been decimated. Everyone else simply doesn't care, doesn't believe it's even happening, or is just too busy getting rich from war profiteering.

So, from the point of view of Ep 7 & 8, I guess Return of the Jedi did conclude (just after the credits began to roll) with massacres perpetrated by this remnant of Imperial Forces. It would fit right in.

[Wargriffin]

I actually liked the original ending song for return of the Jedi while in general I didn't like the additions and changes to the end.

I just can't help to think what happened next was storm troopers gunning down the crowds as local imperial forces stepped in 'to restore order'.

Thats how some old EU books rolled when it came time to take the Imperial Palace cause The Battle for the Capital just had to happen then

Mostly the New Republic took so much ground due to the Empire being in complete disarray due to A: Everybody competent had died at Endor or was still effectively in retreat with a barely serviceable force

and B: Palpy had filled the Empire with the biggest collection of Boobs who basically took a few SD and an army and went to take over a planet for their retirement plan and fought each other for control for who gets to be the New Emperor


Essentially by the Time the Remnant got its shit back together or had someone competent in charge... The Truce at Bakura was seen as the better option then trying to fully retake the Empire.


Places like Tatoonie, The Imperials just fucking left

[Yukaphile]

IIRC, there was an old EU book dedicated to discussing how some Rebel agent on Imperial Center rigged the cameras so the crowds could celebrate the Emperor's death, and then was horrified when the stormtroopers came in to predictably slaughter them all.

[cdrood]

I'd say a bigger problem in this film than the slave outfit is how it feels like Leia's been demoted once they get back to the Rebellion. Upon arriving on Yavin and on Hoth, she's in command center, clearly treated as a leader.

Here, she seems like a common soldier, at best. She's sitting in the crowd wearing the same kind of uniform as everyone else. She isn't even in on the choice of Han to run the ground assault. Then again, she's simply someone under his command. Previously, she was shown as an important political and then military leader.

[Beastro]

I'd say a bigger problem in this film than the slave outfit is how it feels like Leia's been demoted once they get back to the Rebellion. Upon arriving on Yavin and on Hoth, she's in command center, clearly treated as a leader.

Here, she seems like a common soldier, at best. She's sitting in the crowd wearing the same kind of uniform as everyone else. She isn't even in on the choice of Han to run the ground assault. Then again, she's simply someone under his command. Previously, she was shown as an important political and then military leader.

She shoulda been up with Akbar and the battle in space. She wasn't because they needed the romance angle.

I just can't help to think what happened next was storm troopers gunning down the crowds as local imperial forces stepped in 'to restore order'.

Before the Sequel Trilogy, this would have been considered a pessimistic reading that dismissed the point and tone of the films: the Rebels finally managed to overthrow the Emperor and his fleet as well as his super-weapon for good. It was an ending where it may take a while to clean up the Empire's mess and get the Senate back on its feet, but the hope provided by the Battle for Endor was enough to finally turn the tide and bring peace and justice back to the Galaxy.

Thanks to the Sequel Trilogy, we now know that all of that was for naught, and every victory was in vain, as there is no defeating the evil in the Galaxy. They always have an even bigger super-weapon somehow, just stashed away for a rainy day, requiring resources that even the Empire probably couldn't have mustered. We learn that destroying that weapon just makes them angry but doesn't impact their ability to make war at all. Hope is a pointless thing to have, the rebuilt society and government has been destroyed, and the remaining people willing to continue this hopeless fight have been decimated. Everyone else simply doesn't care, doesn't believe it's even happening, or is just too busy getting rich from war profiteering.

So, from the point of view of Ep 7 & 8, I guess Return of the Jedi did conclude (just after the credits began to roll) with massacres perpetrated by this remnant of Imperial Forces. It would fit right in.

That's an amusing thing about the supposed "Expanded" Universe, in that it never expanded anything, just repeated the same cycles of the first movies that the super-weapon epitomizes the worst of.

There's straying too far from the spirit of a setting, then there's being too loyal where it does the worst to it.

More and more I think the huge misstep in Jedi was rehashing the first film when it should have ended with the battle at the capital that results in Luke becoming the next emperor to slowly unwind things kinda like Paul in Dune.

At the very least it wouldn't have set the premise of constantly going over the same things.

[Deledrius]

More and more I think the huge misstep in Jedi was rehashing the first film when it should have ended with the battle at the capital that results in Luke becoming the next emperor to slowly unwind things kinda like Paul in Dune.

At the very least it wouldn't have set the premise of constantly going over the same things.

It would have taken some shuffling, but this is probably a better idea. Not quite as immediately fulfilling as the explosion == sudden victory, but better in the long run.

[Winter]

I just can't help to think what happened next was storm troopers gunning down the crowds as local imperial forces stepped in 'to restore order'.

Before the Sequel Trilogy, this would have been considered a pessimistic reading that dismissed the point and tone of the films: the Rebels finally managed to overthrow the Emperor and his fleet as well as his super-weapon for good. It was an ending where it may take a while to clean up the Empire's mess and get the Senate back on its feet, but the hope provided by the Battle for Endor was enough to finally turn the tide and bring peace and justice back to the Galaxy.

Thanks to the Sequel Trilogy, we now know that all of that was for naught, and every victory was in vain, as there is no defeating the evil in the Galaxy. They always have an even bigger super-weapon somehow, just stashed away for a rainy day, requiring resources that even the Empire probably couldn't have mustered. We learn that destroying that weapon just makes them angry but doesn't impact their ability to make war at all. Hope is a pointless thing to have, the rebuilt society and government has been destroyed, and the remaining people willing to continue this hopeless fight have been decimated. Everyone else simply doesn't care, doesn't believe it's even happening, or is just too busy getting rich from war profiteering.

So, from the point of view of Ep 7 & 8, I guess Return of the Jedi did conclude (just after the credits began to roll) with massacres perpetrated by this remnant of Imperial Forces. It would fit right in.

This is, again, why I prefer the Thrawn Trilogy as the Sequel Trilogy to the Original Trilogy as while Evil wasn't defeated completely good scored a major victory and the Empire didn't have any more super weapons to fall back on. Instead they needed to relay on the wits and skills of a Admiral who could take the Remnants of the fallen Empire and still make it a power to be reckoned with.

In the Sequel Trilogy, the Empire is taken over by Palpatine 0.1 and a Darth Vader fan boy and somehow they are able to make the Empire an even bigger threat despite needing to buy all their weapons second hand according to The Last Jedi while being led by idiots who make the Spaceballs look like a legit threat.

Thrawn is a great villain because he was genuinely smart and resourceful. Plus, like the Rebels in the OT, he was a bit of a under dog as he was now leading a Empire that was a shadow of it's former self much like how the Rebellion was a shadow of the Old Republic. And he's plan actually made sense.

The basic premise of Thrawn's plan was "We don't have the numbers or ships to retake the galaxy. So I'll get a lost fleet of dreadnoughts and create a clone army to pilot it and use a clocked ship to make it look like we have a weapon that can shot through shields as a scare tactic. Also I'll need a Jedi Master who has battle meditation to tilt the odds further in my favor."

Crazy sounding but it is a simple plan and the only real issue was time as Thrawn needed to locate the Crazy Jedi and Dreadnought fleet while creating his clone army in secret. All while gathering the last Remnants of the Empire as quietly as possible so as not to alert the New Republic to his presents and his plans.

Meanwhile, the main reason evil won was because of something Dark Helmet said in Spaceballs. "Evil Will Always Triumph. Because Good is Dumb!" Every single issue the heroes faced as because they all did incredibly stupid things that didn't fit their characters because Disney wanted the Status Quo of the Original Trilogy no matter how little sense it actually made.

The Thrawn Trilogy and even the Prequels were willing to try new things in order to keep things fresh and sometimes they worked and sometimes they didn't but both were at least willing to try something new instead of playing everything safe like the newer films are.

[RobbyB1982]

The problem with the EU was that despite being hundreds of novels and comics it was basically stuck rehashing the last remnants of empire stories for like 30 years with no real change or innovation. Luke and whoever he was training kept going evil temporarily, and there was always one more Empire general or emporer clone or something, and the only time it really worked or left any impression was Thrawn, and the characters introduced in his story.

They eventually realized they had rehashed that too much and brought in an outside force, the Vong, to mix things up... but that was basically just orcs in space, and then they made the same mistake and got wrapped up in that for years and way too many books.

It also doesn't help that every single minor character in the films, including characters only named in the toys, got explored at some point or another. That doesn't expand the universe, it shrinks it.

[Wargriffin]

I'd say the Vong left an impression... in how decisive they were, A truly alien threat... yeah by the end of it they kinda just ignored the Force Immunity thing and just made Force Lightning the go too offensive power for everybody but I appreciate what they were attempting with the Vong

As Far as Imperial Remnants go... outside of the Crazed Moff of the Week thing going on in the books

Thrawn was the Last Hurrah and was The First Major Post ROTJ element

Ice Heart was basically the last time the Imperials had a competent leaders

while the rest of them were Tarkin lite or... well Admiral Daala


It was either Sith Ghosts, Cults or New bizarre aliens


The Emperor Clone thing started and ended with Dark Empire and Palpy being literally dragged to Force Hell by the spirit of a Jedi Knight from the past


But Yeah there was this inability to move on from Luke, Leia and Han to the point the Next Generation were being slaughtered to prove how much the three were still needed.


Ultimately the EU stumbled once the Vong arc was wrapped up and should have just been yet another bunch of individual duologys or stand alone adventures. instead we got yet another war after war and then Jacen turned into Vader 2.0