Past Tense (DS9)

[The Romulan Republic]

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I once saw a fan edit of the episode that removed all the bits on the Defiant aside from when they arrive and after they get back. It works better as a story due to us not seeing any perspective outside of the 21st century. It helps you get better get sucked into the atmosphere of the world.

For the episode's message. I find that it's rather relevant, as automation is inevitable unless there is a disruption in technology or society, and due to the cost of maintenance the initial cost of the machine being much cheaper vs the cost of labor and benefits of having a human there doing it, the numbers of jobs will decrease over time.

There's a rather relevant video about this, called Humans need not apply.

For decades, we've had manufacturing jobs replace human labor in factories, as it's a simple task that can be done by a machine. We're already seeing the first steps of automation taking service jobs in addition to the manufacturing sector, desire of employers for fully automated restaurants, pizza delivery bots,Burger machines starting in California

All of this is fine, as long as you have a society that cares what happens to its lower class people. As Chuck said, one able to give them homes, and ensure that they aren't thought of as something to be thrown away and forgotten. One without concern for those who are unable to work, or do not make enough to survive, runs into problems.

It seems like one of those episodes that gets more plausible with every passing year

Put it that way, and this episode could probably be called "Why Basic Income should be a thing."

[MissKittyFantastico]

While I'm naturally opposed to anything that means less Kira, that edit does sound like it'd tighten things up a bit. I wonder if perhaps we're now, as an audience, more ready for a heavy story that doesn't relieve the bleakness with moments of levity - I feel like even outside of deliberately weighty entertainment, that's more of a standard thing now, whereas (maybe in Star Trek especially) at the time of Past Tense is was almost standard that a downer A-story needed to be balanced by something a bit lighter in the B-side. (The only issue that really occurs to me with ditching the 24th Century scenes would be that perhaps I'd feel like the 'rescue' at the end comes out of nowhere - I'm imagining it almost comedically casual, Sisko and co. stuck in the past for days, barely escaping the crisis intact, and then their commbadges beep and say "Commander? We invented the time transporter, are you done fixing history or do you need a couple more hours?")

I've always been struck by the derogatory slang in the episode, especially 'gimme' for the welfare recipients - we've got our own version of that here, 'dole bludger' (not sure if that's common elsewhere or if it's uniquely Australian), and yeah, you better believe it's just as derogatory, and used to dismiss any notion that they deserve a fair hearing, just the same way. While we haven't got walled detention (not for homeless/unemployed, at any rate; I'm choosing to be optimistic and not add 'yet') it's sobering to think how little the day-to-day attitudes of the general public would have to change to be just like those we see here.

On another note, I remember seeing it pointed out somewhere or other that this is a low-key but significant episode for Bashir, given all the naive-rookie characterisation he was introduced with. Here Sisko tosses him a shotgun and says 'back me up' when they're alone against grim odds, and Bashir backs him up like a champ, so it's a nice bit of development for him.

[Robovski]

In the UK it's "doley" (dole-y) for those not working and living on support, and yep, derrogatory. Common themes of lazy, watching satellite tv, eating shitty food (like they can afford all that fresh food), drinking/smoking, and a lack of education but breeding loads of sprogs that become chavs/neds/whatever.

Or as some brits call them, scum. Or skaven. Or tennant rats.

[SlackerinDeNile]

In the UK it's "doley" (dole-y) for those not working and living on support, and yep, derrogatory. Common themes of lazy, watching satellite tv, eating shitty food (like they can afford all that fresh food), drinking/smoking, and a lack of education but breeding loads of sprogs that become chavs/neds/whatever.

Or as some brits call them, scum. Or skaven. Or tennant rats.

Most people who are on 'doley' are either unemployed and seeking work or disabled and can't physically or
mentally do most work.
What you just described seems to be a common stereotype in quite a few Western countries.
Good luck convincing the Conservative voting masses of this however.

[FaxModem1]

Put it that way, and this episode could probably be called "Why Basic Income should be a thing."

Pretty much. That, or don't treat the underclass as a hindrance at best, or the enemy at worst.

[FaxModem1]

While I'm naturally opposed to anything that means less Kira, that edit does sound like it'd tighten things up a bit. I wonder if perhaps we're now, as an audience, more ready for a heavy story that doesn't relieve the bleakness with moments of levity - I feel like even outside of deliberately weighty entertainment, that's more of a standard thing now, whereas (maybe in Star Trek especially) at the time of Past Tense is was almost standard that a downer A-story needed to be balanced by something a bit lighter in the B-side. (The only issue that really occurs to me with ditching the 24th Century scenes would be that perhaps I'd feel like the 'rescue' at the end comes out of nowhere - I'm imagining it almost comedically casual, Sisko and co. stuck in the past for days, barely escaping the crisis intact, and then their commbadges beep and say "Commander? We invented the time transporter, are you done fixing history or do you need a couple more hours?")

Like Chuck suggested for "The Chute", it's Star Trek, we know things should be all right in the end, and that things will be back to the status quo by the end credits. We don't really need to see the crew safe and sound in another place, when we can have the impression that wherever our characters are, they are stuck there. We know they're not, but it would better serve the episode. It would also make it have more impact with Kira, Odo and O'Brien only being back when the problem of Sanctuary Districts is back on a progressive track.

I've always been struck by the derogatory slang in the episode, especially 'gimme' for the welfare recipients - we've got our own version of that here, 'dole bludger' (not sure if that's common elsewhere or if it's uniquely Australian), and yeah, you better believe it's just as derogatory, and used to dismiss any notion that they deserve a fair hearing, just the same way. While we haven't got walled detention (not for homeless/unemployed, at any rate; I'm choosing to be optimistic and not add 'yet') it's sobering to think how little the day-to-day attitudes of the general public would have to change to be just like those we see here.

Well, we just have to make sure that things aren't that bad in our 2024. You know, it's not like there's a growing a class divide, cost of living is outpacing wages for more and more people, deregulation of programs and laws that prevent economic strife, the rich don't really care what happens to the poor, or we elected a self proclaimed billionaire who wants to erode protections for the poor as a way to make the nation great again. Wait.....

On another note, I remember seeing it pointed out somewhere or other that this is a low-key but significant episode for Bashir, given all the naive-rookie characterisation he was introduced with. Here Sisko tosses him a shotgun and says 'back me up' when they're alone against grim odds, and Bashir backs him up like a champ, so it's a nice bit of development for him.

Yeah, DS9 really shows it's cast evolving over time. Even in the pilot, we knew that when Bashir was in his element, he was an utter professional in a crisis. We slowly see more of that. Remember when he saved the ambassadors in the first Lwaxana Troi episode, or when he was one of the people who ambushed the Bajoran soldiers in the Circle trilogy? Dax also is a bit less stiff and holier than thou than she was in season 1. She is utterly horrified by the 21st century, but she knows how to blend in and play the part. She only really goes to holier than thou when a reporter is apathetic about riots going on in his city, and he doesn't want to report about it.

I think it's also a good fit that Sisko is a fan of 21st century history. Sisko has always been shown as a man who likes to get his hands dirty, and build something up from what it is to what it could be. And in Trek, the 21st century was when we went from a destroyed world to paradise.

[Meushell]

I feel bad for Gabriel Bell in this episode. I know he had to die for Sisko and Bashir to get involved, but I wish they had let him truly be the hero of these episodes. He sounded like an interesting character.

[MissKittyFantastico]

Like Chuck suggested for "The Chute", it's Star Trek, we know things should be all right in the end, and that things will be back to the status quo by the end credits. We don't really need to see the crew safe and sound in another place, when we can have the impression that wherever our characters are, they are stuck there. We know they're not, but it would better serve the episode. It would also make it have more impact with Kira, Odo and O'Brien only being back when the problem of Sanctuary Districts is back on a progressive track.

Actually yeah, I hadn't considered that - nice bit of fridge horror with nothing being shown, but just the implication that the Defiant crew didn't exist until Sisko and co. fixed things.

Well, we just have to make sure that things aren't that bad in our 2024. You know, it's not like there's a growing a class divide, cost of living is outpacing wages for more and more people, deregulation of programs and laws that prevent economic strife, the rich don't really care what happens to the poor, or we elected a self proclaimed billionaire who wants to erode protections for the poor as a way to make the nation great again.

Look on the positive side - the weather seemed pretty nice overall in the 2024 scenes, and we're well on track to making sure that doesn't happen. Yay?

Even in the pilot, we knew that when Bashir was in his element, he was an utter professional in a crisis.

That was a great little moment - "Hold. It. There." To Odo of all people. Actually, good scene for Odo as well, him suddenly being nervous really humanised him in a very relatable way. They did a lot of work with five seconds there.

[FaxModem1]

While I'm naturally opposed to anything that means less Kira, that edit does sound like it'd tighten things up a bit. I wonder if perhaps we're now, as an audience, more ready for a heavy story that doesn't relieve the bleakness with moments of levity - I feel like even outside of deliberately weighty entertainment, that's more of a standard thing now, whereas (maybe in Star Trek especially) at the time of Past Tense is was almost standard that a downer A-story needed to be balanced by something a bit lighter in the B-side. (The only issue that really occurs to me with ditching the 24th Century scenes would be that perhaps I'd feel like the 'rescue' at the end comes out of nowhere - I'm imagining it almost comedically casual, Sisko and co. stuck in the past for days, barely escaping the crisis intact, and then their commbadges beep and say "Commander? We invented the time transporter, are you done fixing history or do you need a couple more hours?")

I just wanted to note that we don't need Star Trek to be overly dark and gritty. I was more envisioning a centered focus on the world of 2024, with us only seeing our heroes in that world and the world around them. For time, flesh out more scenes with the reporter, the District residents, and the cops. Though, I do have to admit that after a certain point, the show becomes less Star Trek and becomes more of a TV movie about the near future.

[CareerKnight]

I was more envisioning a centered focus on the world of 2024, with us only seeing our heroes in that world and the world around them. For time, flesh out more scenes with the reporter, the District residents, and the cops. Though, I do have to admit that after a certain point, the show becomes less Star Trek and becomes more of a TV movie about the near future.

As long as the DS9 cast remained the main view point I think it could still work and not feel generic. Especially since a lot of their comments about 2024 were in how it related and compared to life in the Federation. I kind of of wish there had been more of that in the episode, though it would have been hard to do anymore with a lot of how the Federation economy works never really being defined. It would have been a bit like that episode of the Twilight Zone (or maybe it was Outer Limits, saw it years ago) in which a guy is transported back in time to either the very early 20th or late 19th century and after listening to and old man talk about war in very jingoistic terms rants against the guy cause he knows exact where that kind of thinking will lead.