VOY - Retrospect
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Re: VOY - Retrospect
I'm curious about how Latent Image serves to echo this one later in season 5. It carries a few elements right over from this episode.
..What mirror universe?
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Re: VOY - Retrospect
Just watched, and can't disagree with Chuck. Sorry, been gone a while because I've been sick.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
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Re: VOY - Retrospect
This episode did a pretty bad job of addressing the recovered memories issue. Those cases didn't just have people suddenly remember something that never happened. They were a result of therapists implanting false memories using unproven techniques like hypnosis, guided imagery, and even drugs, putting patients in very suggestible states, asking leading questions and encouraging them to "remember" past traumas. They were the result of gross incompetence and severe malpractice. And they rarely dealt with recent memories. They dealt with "repressed" childhood memories. Things were really getting out of hand with people were giving accounts of recovering memories of Satanic rituals involving child sacrifices.
Re: VOY - Retrospect
I liked the episode ok, and the concept. But agree the execution was somewhat flawed in some respects.
Re: VOY - Retrospect
I was the one who originally requested this episode back in 2016, before the Weinstein scandal brought this sort of material to greater public attention. Funny how a few years can suddenly make something more relevant.
This was probably my least favorite episode of Voyager (hence my requesting it) because I was one of the people who saw the episode as being about "not believing the victim" instead of "false accusations can ruin your life". SFDebris' point about this actually being a Doctor episode was a good one, and I really appreciate his explaining the history behind repressed memories and looking at both points of view (I specifically requested he try to do that, and he knocked it out of the park). I still don't like the episode, but I get it a little more now. So thanks for that.
That being said, I think part of the reason I was left frustrated was because it felt like they didn't do enough investigating. The Mind meld aspect SFDebris mentioned never occurred to me (though it's an excellent point), but I was wondering why they weren't searching for Kovin's assistant, or any evidence of the other guy he'd injected. Even one line where Kovin said he didn't have an assistant would have been at least a sign the Voyager crew was pursuing all avenues of investigation. Instead, it just feels like they didn't fully look into it, thus making the declaration of innocence ring hollow.
Good review as always, SFDebris! Thanks for filling my request!
This was probably my least favorite episode of Voyager (hence my requesting it) because I was one of the people who saw the episode as being about "not believing the victim" instead of "false accusations can ruin your life". SFDebris' point about this actually being a Doctor episode was a good one, and I really appreciate his explaining the history behind repressed memories and looking at both points of view (I specifically requested he try to do that, and he knocked it out of the park). I still don't like the episode, but I get it a little more now. So thanks for that.
That being said, I think part of the reason I was left frustrated was because it felt like they didn't do enough investigating. The Mind meld aspect SFDebris mentioned never occurred to me (though it's an excellent point), but I was wondering why they weren't searching for Kovin's assistant, or any evidence of the other guy he'd injected. Even one line where Kovin said he didn't have an assistant would have been at least a sign the Voyager crew was pursuing all avenues of investigation. Instead, it just feels like they didn't fully look into it, thus making the declaration of innocence ring hollow.
Good review as always, SFDebris! Thanks for filling my request!
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Re: VOY - Retrospect
I grew up during the satanic panic and it came dangerously close to me and my family at one point, so I appreciate what they were trying to do. But in the end it fell short.
One of the major flaws for me is, why would the doctor try to use a form of "therapy" that had been disproven hundreds of years prior? It's the equivalent of having the doctor suddenly trying to cure a fever with blood letting.
Maybe a better way they could have handled it would be for the accusation to come from someone on the planet against someone on the crew. Make it seem like the crew member could actually be guilty until the investigation works backwards to discover a doctor unknowingly planting false memories in the victim. To really drive the point home, the episode could have ended with the Voyager making an escape at high warp after the local authorities turn on them.
One of the major flaws for me is, why would the doctor try to use a form of "therapy" that had been disproven hundreds of years prior? It's the equivalent of having the doctor suddenly trying to cure a fever with blood letting.
Maybe a better way they could have handled it would be for the accusation to come from someone on the planet against someone on the crew. Make it seem like the crew member could actually be guilty until the investigation works backwards to discover a doctor unknowingly planting false memories in the victim. To really drive the point home, the episode could have ended with the Voyager making an escape at high warp after the local authorities turn on them.
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Re: VOY - Retrospect
Didn't that already happen with Paris when he slept with that guy's wife?proporRocket wrote: ↑Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:16 am
Maybe a better way they could have handled it would be for the accusation to come from someone on the planet against someone on the crew. Make it seem like the crew member could actually be guilty until the investigation works backwards to discover a doctor unknowingly planting false memories in the victim. To really drive the point home, the episode could have ended with the Voyager making an escape at high warp after the local authorities turn on them.
..What mirror universe?
Re: VOY - Retrospect
Well, in the Star Trek universe, there is a whole bunch of technology and psychic powers that can repress memories, so trying to uncover them is not without merit.proporRocket wrote: ↑Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:16 am I grew up during the satanic panic and it came dangerously close to me and my family at one point, so I appreciate what they were trying to do. But in the end it fell short.
One of the major flaws for me is, why would the doctor try to use a form of "therapy" that had been disproven hundreds of years prior? It's the equivalent of having the doctor suddenly trying to cure a fever with blood letting.
Maybe a better way they could have handled it would be for the accusation to come from someone on the planet against someone on the crew. Make it seem like the crew member could actually be guilty until the investigation works backwards to discover a doctor unknowingly planting false memories in the victim. To really drive the point home, the episode could have ended with the Voyager making an escape at high warp after the local authorities turn on them.
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Re: VOY - Retrospect
Huh I think that this episode is the first VOY episode that I ever watched
Not totally relevant it just the first episode that I have a clear memory of watching
Not totally relevant it just the first episode that I have a clear memory of watching
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Re: VOY - Retrospect
I'll leave the other topics to those that have discussed them, and touch on one neither Chuck or anyone here so far has.
Voyager is finally doing (well only tried to in the end) a deal that would improve a key ship system that would have real meaning in their long trip. The downsides are it's over 3 seasons too late, and much like Alliances the concept is boxed forever after one go.
One of the reasons why there's so little tension in the show, they should have been looking to improve all their systems (especially tactical ones) from day 1, instead it's only plot needed stuff, or some food here, or stuff for the delfector there.
Voyager is finally doing (well only tried to in the end) a deal that would improve a key ship system that would have real meaning in their long trip. The downsides are it's over 3 seasons too late, and much like Alliances the concept is boxed forever after one go.
One of the reasons why there's so little tension in the show, they should have been looking to improve all their systems (especially tactical ones) from day 1, instead it's only plot needed stuff, or some food here, or stuff for the delfector there.