Babylon 5: Revelations

[Blaze Rocker]

How much debris do you think ex-person chunks can create?

Well now . . . this thread certainly took a dark turn.

[Yukaphile]

He brought it up. That, or worded it poorly. Or I misunderstood? Whichever you think sounds more plausible.

[Admiral X]

Unless you think "programming" someone to be someone else is incredibly creepy.

Yeah, I do, I find that really disturbing to be honest. Not only does it not really get around the whole moral quandary of the death penalty, because they are still effectively killing a person even if they haven't killed the person's body. And as someone else pointed out, they do it so quickly that there doesn't seem to be much of an appeals process, if any at all. That actually makes the current system seem better by comparison.

[Yukaphile]

I don't know. I find it kind of ironic if you made a serial rapist who preyed on women and kids turn into a celibate monk who was nothing but kind and saw "sex" as just a base impulse we should rise above. Or a serial slasher who enjoys cutting up his victims into a harmless pacifist who loves life, cherishes life, and would die to protect all forms of life - even the wicked.

I can understand an opposition to the death of personality on strong libertarian grounds, however. And the true meaning of the word, not the bastardized Republican Lite definition it's become.

[Admiral X]

They aren't the same person, though. They've just been turned into a reprogrammed meat puppet and the real them has been killed. And this has all the same concerns with abuse or mistakes as in present day capital punishment.

[Yukaphile]

It's turning a monster and making them serve society in a better way, and turning something bad, and making it positive. The only problem is you could argue as a limited, flawed beings, we are too irresponsible to wield that kind of power over someone else, which I could certainly understand. Only truly impartial AI, for example, could be trusted with that - in an ideal world.

[MixedDrops]

Since they remove and place in a new personality for the person using a computer, wouldn't it be possible to save the old personality and put it back in? I imagine that'd be kinda useful in those "whoops, I guess he was innocent" cases, and in that sense it'd be preferable to the death penalty since you can't really CTRL+Z death...unless you're Sheridan I guess.

[Yukaphile]

I hear in EU material Kosh scanned Talia's personality (during his Season 1 shenanigans) so that he could bring her back when the sleeper agent kicked in, so very possible.

[cdrood]

Can I just say how great Ed Wasser did with Morden's body language and facial expressions? Even without saying anything, you just want to punch him in the face. There's this smugness he projects that suits the character perfectly.

[cdrood]

OMG, how long has it been since Chuck did an actual intro before the music rolled? Are they coming back? One can only hope!

"For being brave and multi-dimensional above and beyond the call!"

Haha, Chuck calls him "Mr. Morten!" Still, now I've advanced past the Shadow War and the fallout with the Vorlons (epic, especially "NOW GET THE HELL OUT OF OUR GALAXY!"), it's weird going back to him and the intrigue surrounding him... given I know his inevitable fate.

"You just made a mistake, Londo! EVEN IF MY ASSOCIATES LOSE THIS WAR, THEY HAVE ALLIES! THEY'LL MAKE SURE CENTAURI PRIME PAYS THE PRICE FOR WHAT YOU'VE DONE HERE TODAY!"

I do love Mr. Morden as a villain, though. It's strange seeing the actor, well... act here. He doesn't feel as refined as he'd get later.

Knew Chuck was gonna bring up this old WWII tale... eh. Moving on.

It's also weird hearing about Anna Sheridan given... well, I now know what happened to her too, used by the Shadows as fuel for their ship, and convinced him to come to Z'ha'dum. Yeah... wow, this brings back memories. Of a few months ago.

Ah, Na'Toth. Haven't seen her in a LONG time.

"Or a race having a mid-life crisis!" The snark here is glorious.

Didn't get the Doctor Who reference.

"Well, coincidentally, Londo is Centauri scum" NO YA THINK?!

Oh God, seeing Talia again is just... tragic. The poor girl. >.< Though I've read there's hope. Kosh's shenanigans in Season 1 with her was just to get a scan of her brain so that he could transplant her old personality back, I think? Read that on TV Tropes.

This is one thing that always horrified me about B5. Spacing. It's the sci-fi equivalent of hanging someone. How is that legal in the 23rd century? It seems odd, though gives a bit of dark flavor to the show.

Awwww? Chuck didn't take the chance to make the obvious Trump joke with Clark?

I'll agree with Chuck here. As I advanced through B5, I really grew to like G'Kar, and his character growth. It finally hit me a while back that he was Tomalak from TNG, which... wow. And then to take him and turn him into a reforming holy man in this series? I'll agree with Chuck's word. It was inspired.

The reciting of the love letter at the end... well, it really should go into the TV Tropes "Heartwarming" section for SF Debris. I could feel the heartfelt emotions coming from a married man in there, and while a part of me is always jealous, a larger part of me is always happy to hear this kind of stuff. True love is so important, it should always be cherished like this. It makes me wonder if, in some ways, we've lost something, something sacred from the last seven decades of progress, that for all we've gained, something was also lost. Like this dude here writing love letters to his wife. How often do you see that anymore? No, it's all about dysfunctional families and... bleh.

As to the spacing thing. Even Babylon 5 made it only legal for mutiny. However, with it and death of personality, they address the problem of resources in a space environment. What do you do with criminals when you don't have the resources to imprison them for extended periods and the cost of transporting them across light years is prohibitive. Star Trek tends to ignore the limitations of living in an extremely controlled environment.

Like it or not, living in space will introduce a whole new set of rules. You won't be able to come and go as you please. You won't be able to change careers just because you want a change. You won't be able to have children whenever you and your partner decide to. All of these things will have to be approved due to limitations on air, food, space, etc.