ENT - Stigma

[tvindy]

Could this episode be worst one in entire Enterprise. At least it seems to me worst one based on ones that Chuck has reviewed so far.

I would go so far as to say that's it's the worst Star Trek story of all the series and movies. I've seen them all (except for a handful of episodes from season three of Enterprise), and in my subjective opinion, there's nothing worse.

[turbo_sailor67]

Could this episode be worst one in entire Enterprise. At least it seems to me worst one based on ones that Chuck has reviewed so far. At least Chuck made MtG reference with that "Citadel of the Nicol Bolas" that warms my heart as former MtG player.

Ah! Thank you for that, because I had NO idea what the hell that reference was to! Wasn't sure how to spell it either. It was bugging me because I always want to understand the context of whatever it is being discussed; probably because so much of what I've done/studied in tech for my degrees and certs was typically LACKING context. Always appreciated Magic's artwork but I never understood how to play the game; everybody I ever saw play always seemed to play by their own rules and that there was no standardization I could find. Either fortunately or unfortunately for me the internet wasn't around for me to be able to read up on the rules of the game myself.

[turbo_sailor67]

(Another example, Supergirl's current season with the tedious ham-handed immigration strife allogory. I just think that, maybe, a show about an alien superhero living among humans is largely going to be watched by the people who kind of don't need that message, because they are like, fans of an alien superhero living among humans. But perhaps I am once again, giving people more credit than they are due in assuming that there are very few people who will watch something like that and go "my goodness, Supergirl is right, I better stop being a Richard the Third to my neighbour chap from [some other cultural background/country/whatever]!"

(Notably, the moment they actually got to the "Russain Supergirl clone plot that has been teased for the first, like two-thirds of the season, everything improved markedly...)

This is not to say "don't do it," but rather "don't do it fracking WRONG."

Because nice progressives cannot be bigoted towards people who don't think the right way?

This is partly why I stopped watching Social Justice Girl. The show got incredibly boring and pretentious, and worst of all, boring. Flash has steadily more Voyager-like and boring to me too since the last leg of Season 2. As for Enterprise, I honestly can't remember if I ever watched most of these episodes being reviewed or not!

I watched the first season, and found it lacking direction and boring. I didn't come back to check on it until after I came home from being forward deployed and thought since I had the time now, I wonder if that Star Trek Enterprise show ever got good?

I'm impressed with anyone who can stay awake for the show, you're a better fan than I. Voyager is so bad it's funny to me on so many levels, Enterprise is so dull and when it tries to be preachy and pat itself on the back for its "messages" I find it insulting like that ethnic cleansing episode they did.

HOWEVER, somehow we're back into so stupid it's funny territory with this episode! I'm not offended that they struck any gay out of it; nor the implications that they make. I am just so amused with Rick Berman's weird attitude towards it. "We can't have gay couples out of focus just in the background holding hands in ten-forward", and "We should do something about AIDS, but remove the gays from the equation and just make inferences to them." not exact quotes mind you but kind of like what Lana says to Sterling Archer "it is like peeling an onion with you"

[turbo_sailor67]

placing the Vulcans in that role was only going to succeed if the writing as willing to let them be more than one note strawmen for the righteous captain to yell about or as sociopathic bigots for the aesop episodes.

I think the whole show was just grasping at straws or straw-men.

[Veggietrekker]

This episode is a mess, no doubt about it. Later trek lost all the subtlety that made earlier Trek something great. Since it was referenced by Chuck, 'Up the Long Ladder' never for a moment felt like an abortion thing to me. If it was really or if its just someone's interpretation of it I can't say. Just didn't feel like it to me with how it was handled. The Quickening was supposedly an AIDS allegory episode but I never for a second thought AIDS like I did with it being a Leper Colony or maybe an allegory for biological warfare. This episode goes full on punching you in the face with its message and it is done at the disservice to the Vulcan race. I would say that (probably by accident) it is less about partaking in gay sex with the mind-meld than with drug use. Then it could be said its an addiction some people are born susceptible to and could also be lured into using. That's a stretch I know but with how it was presented that's the only sense I can make of it.

[Meushell]

The Trip plot could have been fun if better written, and probably not side-by-side with the “rape/AIDS” plot.

Phlox’s wife can certainly flirt without it turning into harassment. Also, why on earth did the writers feel the need to have Phlox and his wife laughing at humans for not wanting to sleep with married people? I forget their exact wording, but they really came off as snobs. “Silly humans. Their culture is different than ours.”

This plot could have been about someone other than Trip. Mayweather for instance, and he decides to have fun once he learns that Phlox is fine with it. Maybe Phlox even surprises him by saying he suggested him in the first place. You could even keep the Trip stuff, but she moves on because he’s not interested.

[MithrandirOlorin]

The problem with Chuck''s outrage here is that Bigots always view themselves as the ones thinking logically and us as the ones blinded by emotion. Remember Plato invented Homophobia. The Wesbtro Baptists are Lawyers and Calvanists, they certainly see themselves as the Vulcans of America.

The idea behind deconstructing the Vulcans in this way is predicated on saying they always always used "Logic" as an excuse for their own pecular rleigious beleifs. And the basis for that has been around since the orignal series, since Amok Time at least.

[bluebydefault]

Part of why I quit watching this show is because of the depiction of Vulcans. I know it gets better after season 2 but I can't bring myself to watch. They aren't the only ones that do this but they're the worst.

Like how do they not get it? Just because you try to control your emotions doesn't mean that you'll be a jerk ass. I mean if you have a problem with humans and you think you're so much better than them then why work with them? Logically you should not join Starfleet if you have issues with other species that have emotions. If you do join Starfleet then you should do your best to be pleasant and accommodating to other species for a good working environment. And yea not every depiction of a Vulcan needs to be the same. You can depict some of them in a positive light and some can be jerks. Its just why make all of them jerks?! It just circles back the thinking that they really don't understand Vulcans at all.

[jlb21821]

While I agree with chuck that the allegory episode is really bad (in fact most Trek allegories are bad) i think Chuck overreacted with context to the Vulcan society. Maybe it's because I don't care about the Vulcans as much as Chuck, i don't really think it ruins the Vulcans all that much. Its just a bad well meaning episode to me not an offensive one.

[Mecha82]

Part of why I quit watching this show is because of the depiction of Vulcans. I know it gets better after season 2 but I can't bring myself to watch. They aren't the only ones that do this but they're the worst.

Like how do they not get it? Just because you try to control your emotions doesn't mean that you'll be a jerk ass. I mean if you have a problem with humans and you think you're so much better than them then why work with them? Logically you should not join Starfleet if you have issues with other species that have emotions. If you do join Starfleet then you should do your best to be pleasant and accommodating to other species for a good working environment. And yea not every depiction of a Vulcan needs to be the same. You can depict some of them in a positive light and some can be jerks. Its just why make all of them jerks?! It just circles back the thinking that they really don't understand Vulcans at all.

This is why I also agree with Chuck when it comes to how Vulcans are portrayed in Enterprise. Way they are shown to be in Enterprise makes no sense and reeks not understanding Vulcans as both species and society.