VOY: Extreme Risk Review

[clearspira]

I can't help but think that Federation starships should already have Delta Flyer type ships given how they can already make a roughly equivalent ship in the runabout which is superior to an ordinary shuttle in every way. What can the Flyer do that a runabout can't except being far less multi-functional given how a runabout can swap out its back unit depending on the mission.

But lbh, the Feds not putting thought into their designs is not new.

[Marveryn]

I can't help but think that Federation starships should already have Delta Flyer type ships given how they can already make a roughly equivalent ship in the runabout which is superior to an ordinary shuttle in every way. What can the Flyer do that a runabout can't except being far less multi-functional given how a runabout can swap out its back unit depending on the mission.

But lbh, the Feds not putting thought into their designs is not new.

they did think of one. It was a captain yacht, but was left out of the show cause of reason. It was shown in one of the next generation movie and you look in the under the ship you see where it was suppose to be place. It would had been slightly larger then a shuttle.

[cdrood]

How exactly can the safety protocols affect a simulated holodeck jump? She's not really jumping that far and wouldn't really achieve terminal velocity. In fact, it would probably require some sort of force field to hold her in place while the scenery is shifted around her and air is blown at her to simulate the speed.

The writers seem to forget the holodeck is just a room and the programs don't make it any bigger. I never could understand how something like Fairhaven could work right for so many crew members at the same time.

[cdrood]

''This has been a problem for months, but it wasn't a problem for months last week.''

And in one line, Voyager summed up.

Too true. It used to drive me nuts as a kid whenever a show had such disgusting disregard for continuity. As an adult, I know it as just being shit writing. I find I like Voyager a lot less than I did when I was in middle/high school... Whereas Farscape and Babylon 5 I thought were kinda dumb are now two of my all time favorite shows.

I'm reminded of the "Emmy bait" episode of "Family Ties", "A My Name Is Alex", where half the episode is Michael J. Fox alone talking to an unseen therapist. It's all about the recent death of his best friend since kindergarten that the show never once mentioned before. They couldn't even be bothered to bring him on for an episode or two prior just to establish his existence. I've always felt the episode was overrated.

[RobbyB1982]

Though 2b fair, Voyager is certainly not the first ST series to retroactively establish a character had undergone a major change months before without even the cast knowing till now. Less we forget that revel in season 5 of DS9 Dr. Bashair had been a changeling for several episodes during which he was somehow able to deliver a baby even changeling have no reproductive system to speck of!

The whole thing with Changelings is they were presented as being able to fake being someone else really, REALLY well for months or even years at a time. A changeling impersonating Bashir would study up on at least the basics of medicine, and count on the computer and assistants to do the rest, and he obviously had studied and read up on Bashir very heavily. And Bashir had no family he talked to, no loved ones sharing quarters with him. The only one he'd really need to fool at serious length was OBrien for which you go out for a drink and throw some darts and listen to him ramble.

Fake Bashir delivering a baby is one thing. Had fake Bashir, say, stayed on a planet for weeks to try and cure a plague, then succeeded, (as real Bashir did) that would be another. Or, as Chuck joked about in the episode where Bashir was outed as genetically enhanced, had he still been the changeling then, while dealing with his parents, AND not knowing his secret AND being specifically studied intensely and put under extreme scrutiny? That would have been a whole different can of worms.

Tores, having an actual crippling mental condition affecting her judgement and causing her to injure herself, is not something she should have been able to fake for months at a time. First time she injured herself too badly someone should have noticed "Hey, you're moving funny. Is your side hurt? Did you twist your leg?" Or when she, for months is not acting like hersself, not picking fights with 7, etc. That her boyfriend didn't pick up on anything? DIdn't even notice wounds when they were intimate? That's a different matter.

[Artabax]

I can't help but think that Federation starships should already have Delta Flyer type ships given how they can already make a roughly equivalent ship in the runabout which is superior to an ordinary shuttle in every way. What can the Flyer do that a runabout can't except being far less multi-functional given how a runabout can swap out its back unit depending on the mission.

But lbh, the Feds not putting thought into their designs is not new.

they did think of one. It was a captain yacht, but was left out of the show cause of reason. It was shown in one of the next generation movie and you look in the under the ship you see where it was suppose to be place. It would had been slightly larger then a shuttle.

Captain's yacht is a real Historical thing. They told me.

Napoleonic War etc: both Captains are Aristocrats with lots of bling.
When both sides have enough time to prepare before a battle, they each put a little row-boat behind the ship with all the Treasure. By Laws of Chivalry you don't shoot at the Captain's yacht. etc

[PerrySimm]

Voyager also originally had an Aeroshuttle, which was cannibalized for space, and maybe parts too.

Personally, this is an episode that had two memorable plots, but they didn't mesh such that it's memorable that both were in the same episode. As pointed out, the Torres stuff barely interacts with the Paris stuff.

Does this episode qualify as a break from the usual Torres "fight/fix" routine? Or did this episode mainly amount to her fighting and/or fixing herself?

[FaxModem1]

Voyager also originally had an Aeroshuttle, which was cannibalized for space, and maybe parts too.

Personally, this is an episode that had two memorable plots, but they didn't mesh such that it's memorable that both were in the same episode. As pointed out, the Torres stuff barely interacts with the Paris stuff.

Does this episode qualify as a break from the usual Torres "fight/fix" routine? Or did this episode mainly amount to her fighting and/or fixing herself?

The "Torres either gets angry, screws someone, or fixes something" plotlines is a bit misnomer, as while she does both in this episode(gets angry at Chakotay and fights Cardassians, fixes the Delta Flyer), we're seeing the actual depth to her character for the first time, which has been hinted at but seldom delved into.

For instance, "Faces" shows us that Torres really does have a lot going on there, with her soft side and hard side always seeming to fight, but having to be together to be a complete person. This is also letting the audience know that while she is a hothead, there's a lot of stuff buried there that we don't see due to her fear of letting it out.

"Day of Honor" in season 4 shows us that Torres is having real problems consoling her life with the Klingon expectations, and she feels like a failure for it. It's also the first time she allows herself to be honest about her feelings regarding Paris.

"Extreme Risk" here is all about the fact that she is used to everyone leaving her, and dealing with the issues therein(When the writers remember to write it).

"Juggernaut" has Torres trying to deal with her anger with meditation and therapy with Tuvok. It doesn't take, as she eventually beats the killer to death with a pipe, but she's trying.

"Barge of the Dead" is about her adhering to Klingon beliefs, and dealing with the expectations she's had saddled on her since childhood from her mother. Learning to let go of them.

"Drive" is Torres wondering whether she and Paris have a serious future together, or if it's just him having fun. Like Extreme Risk, they pair Torres emotional problems with a big episode about the Delta Flyer. I guess that makes sense, due to the fact that it really is their metaphorical baby.

"Lineage" is about her backstory, and why that is. Mostly, it's a lot of characterization that we should have really delved into way back when. Getting it at all is stellar for Voyager though. Mostly how the problems of things beyond her control made her defensive from then on.

"Prophecy" is kind of about Torres and her relationship with Klingons, getting to see her accomplishments in a new light. Also dealing with the fact that Klingons are a bit judgey about the whole intermarrying thing.

So, while the elements of the typical Torres script are there, she does have a character arc that can be explored. The problem is that a lot of the time, the writers use her to explore someone with a short temper's reaction to things going wrong. But,we see her perspective a few times over the years, showing that she is NOT the typical Klingon, and has a window into things that most don't. Note how she reacts to the Doctor's holofamily and how life isn't like that. She doesn't bring out her whole backstory, but the 1950s sitcom versus her life of abandonment shows she knows more about families than he does. Torres's comment on engineers versus Warriors is an interesting note in "Flesh and Blood" shows that unlike Worf, she doesn't buy into a lot of Klingon importance about fighting battles, while still holding those beliefs deep in her heart. We see evidence of her supportive side a lot of times whenever Paris is going through things, such as her getting through to Paris in "Alice" when he's fighting a computer program. We see her bigotry with the Cardassians on several occasions whenever they're brought up, something that they didn't really do with Chakotay for whatever reason. Generally, we see a lot of her character over the years to know that she's a lot more fleshed out than Chakotay or Kim.

[Wolf359]

I can't help but think that Federation starships should already have Delta Flyer type ships given how they can already make a roughly equivalent ship in the runabout which is superior to an ordinary shuttle in every way. What can the Flyer do that a runabout can't except being far less multi-functional given how a runabout can swap out its back unit depending on the mission.

But lbh, the Feds not putting thought into their designs is not new.

they did think of one. It was a captain yacht, but was left out of the show cause of reason. It was shown in one of the next generation movie and you look in the under the ship you see where it was suppose to be place. It would had been slightly larger then a shuttle.

The captain’s yacht wasn’t particularly multi-functional, it being glorified diplomatic transport. Does make you wonder why the Voyager crew didn’t mention using the aeroshuttle; the name would suggest that flying into planets was its speciality. Even modifying it to better withstand the gas giant I’d have thought would have been easier than designing an building a new shuttle from scratch. At least this episode answers the question of where Voyager gets its never ending supply of Type-6/8/9 shuttles from; they can just knock them up in a couple of hours (presumably in between resetting Voyager back to showroom condition after every battle).

How dumb must Tom be for not noticing Torres odd behaviour of the past few months? Yeh I know it was a problem for months but not until last week, but she’s his girlfriend, the closest person on the ship to her! This episode leaves him looking like a moron. Chuck says Tom is an expert in pretty much anything, but I guess observation isn’t one of them.

[clearspira]

The simplest answer for the aeroshuttle is that it simply was not on board when they left DS9 because it was arriving on Tuesday. In fact, maybe many of Voyager's problems can be explained that way.