B5: And Now For a Word

[Nightbeat74]

Though we can comfort ourselves that it's not as bad as 19th century London newspapers often were. What a clown show that was.

Or Early 20th Century American Papers, which literally started a war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_of_the_Spanish%E2%80%93American_War

Are we not still in a war in Iraq that was aided into being by news reports not being sufficiently critical of US government claims that there were WMDs in Iraq? The American press is always in favor of getting into a war, it simply has no interest in the doldrums of continuing conflict.

so the press takes to the ferengi rule of acqisition #34 war is good for business far to well.

[SpacePaladin]

I also remember watching some Lore Reloaded videos and seemed to be under the idea that an anti-Minbari bioweapon could be easily produced and used against the Minbari as a means of winning the conflict.

That was definitely a plan on the table - Earth wanted to develop a bioweapon and Franklin was imprisoned for a bit for not giving EarthForce medical knowledge he had on the Minbari. However, given how desperate Earth was, the fact that Earth wanted to develop a bioweapon does not mean it would have worked.

Yes, desperation makes sense. As I stated above, a bioweapon would do nothing in space battles where Minbari had a tremendous advantage.

We know there were ground battles, presumably on Earth colonies the Minbari were looking to secure before moving on. In this case, the nature of the bioweapon would be important.

If it's fast acting, to be used against the Minbari ground troops, it's possible delaying the inevitable. If the Centauri could hurl asteroids from orbit, there's little doubt the Minbari could do the same or worse.

If it's something designed to be communicable, that infected ground soldiers bring back to the fleet, you're depending on the Minbari not being able to quarantine and you still have the possibility that they'd change how they handle future planetside operations.

Then, add in how much actual time they would have had to develop something that would affect the Minbari, but wouldn't harm human. That would likely take years.

Not to mention all the testing it would need to go under that brings a CRAP TON of ethical issues we are talking LIVE HUMAN TESTING! I found it very ironic(or fitting) that EarthGov asked a black doctor for his notes on the Minbari ,i think aside from the Hippocratic oath, it brought up stuff like the tuskegee syphilis experiment,mengelee,and all the other unethical human experiments that he had to read and wright papers on and not throw up on his text books while doing it so,and with all that on his mind... yes he will say with all due respect sir FUCK THE HELL NO!

The Minbari were engaging in a genocidal war. Surrenders were not accepted. They were going to burn Earth from orbit. Ethics can frequently go out the window in the face of such odds.
“It is an undeniable, and may I say fundamental quality of man, that when faced with extinction, every alternative is preferable.” -Leonard Church, Red Vs Blue.

I don't begrudge Earthforce for looking into every option, no matter how awful. I begrudge backseat lore video makers for thinking this was anything except the desperate Hail Mary effort it would have been.

[Yukaphile]

My apologies. I literally could not watch this for longest time since I've had to switch to a wireless, and the video would stop, never restart, and I'd have to jump ahead to get it to keep going. Even refreshing didn't help, it STOPPED at that timestamp. Wireless blows.

My thoughts.

For one, I have to skip past Chuck's intro now, sadly. I can't enjoy the actual Season 5 B5 after having listened to this for so long, lol.

The EA controls 2,000 worlds? Okay, that's interesting... but in 14 solar systems, really? That seems a bit weird... more of the "sci-fi writers have no sense of scale thing," I'm thinking. Then again, it could be propaganda by the government, and we know Clark is a very short-sighted kind of dictator.

Had no idea MSNBC did that. Welp, just makes me even happier I ditched them!

It is great to finally hear the odd story behind Chuck's dad and the narrative they framed that he's against school buses. I really hope in addition to dissolving Hollywood someday, where the fans tell the stories that is about art, that the big elitist cable news networks finally dissolve as well so that online interaction supersedes it. Social media. I mean, given the scope of our hyperconnected hive, we hear news events as they happen. And yet it should be a supplement to traditional forms of news, not the replacement, or you run the risk of encountering more fake news. I mean, I saw this kinda discourse from everyone I talked ton Facebook back in 2016, who felt that they were doing a hit job on Sanders or Clinton alike. Character assassination stuff, all that shit. It's really the moment I finally lost faith in the press and learned accurate journalism is a LIE. Like everything else, it seems. At least this vid gave me one tiny bit of hope, in that perhaps the polls we have now are still inaccurate, and it's kinda what I feel. Hope so, since I REALLY don't want Biden as the nominee. Or Sanders. It's been a hundred fucking years since women finally got the historic right to vote, and they wanna shove this tokenism-pandering at us masquerading as equality at us? SMH

I have to wonder here if G'Kar was covering his ass a wee bit here, since he claims the Centauri were gathering here to use mass drivers, and while they found the blueprints in the ship... we see later on that it's a genuine shock to Londo that Reefa wants to use them (and he was in a position of genuine authority, he made this possible, so no way they would not tell him), and later episodes imply they just grabbed 'em from the asteroid field in the solar system of the Narn homeworld to throw at the planet. Very spur of the moment. Not planned out. Besides, how much planning is needed to tractor an asteroid to a nearby world? Who knows. Perhaps the Narn just attacked the Centauri out of rage, and it turned out they stumbled upon a real hidden agenda. That would be amusing as hell! Speaking of G'Kar, I find it a bit weird Chuck didn't mention the "Dust to Dust" stuff, since it was outright said by G'Kar himself when his father died, he went out and killed his first Centauri. Really ties into those kinda themes from that episode. Then again, maybe he did. My Internet connection is shit thanks to network errors, and so I lost a huge chunk of video here.

Kosh is totally B5's Bigfoot.

And I genuinely lost it from the "it's a mistake she won't make twice!" quip. Again, I feel as if Delenn's role really should have come out. The secrecy surrounding it does not sit right me. On this issue, JMS can go to hell. That's not how it was presented as on screen. Sheridan could still love Delenn, and if anything, learning that would make good drama. It just appears like he didn't think this through, and didn't wanna further taint the reputation of his pet race.

"And we don't care how many people we have to bomb in order to get it!" XD

I find it odd the Centauri think they could maintain a blockade with just one ship, even if it IS a bluff. Maybe their resources were just stretched thin across the quadrant due to the war, but still... you'd think they'd try to send two, at least, if they wanted to present that kinda message.

THE RETURN OF THE CREEPY PSI CORPS COMMERCIAL!

What needs to be noted here is that Senator Quantrell is the guy who would later discuss how the Centauri were bombing the Narn back to Stone Age with the mass drivers.

I like the ending a lot. Despite the tensions and the conflict and agendas of the other races, specifically the Narn vs. Centauri, they speak well of the humans. Very uplifting Roddenberry type themes without Roddenberry himself to get in the way. Very solid episode. One I always find worth returning to as a prelude to "The Long, Twilight Struggle."

[Yukaphile]

Gotta agree with SpacePaladin. You can blame the warrior caste all day long, but at the end of the day, the religious caste let it go on TOO LONG, and waited too long to give the final order. The Minbari were being given surrender messages and didn't fucking care. THEY WANTED US ALL DEAD. For the death of Dukhat. Murder God knows how many innocents in revenge and wounded pride. If anything, it paints Franklin as all too naive. His decision would have killed him off too. Funny how only a few years prior, the Minbari were behaving exactly as the Centauri and later Clark's government were, eh? SMH

[Yukaphile]

The Minbari stuff kinda reminds me of Elfen Lied, since in a few circles I hang around in, they agree with my thinking here, but also think the humans were justified in what they did to the Diclonii. That I can't get behind, since the humans made it worse. It just seems like the idea of superpowers unnerved them, created an inferiority complex in them that had them lash out and wanna "put" the "superior" Diclonii "in their place," and so there is no choice but to kill them. The research facility was a joke, totally not interested in finding ways to coexist, but in just stripping them of all humanity (literally) and hurting them.

[bguy]

The EA controls 2,000 worlds? Okay, that's interesting... but in 14 solar systems, really? That seems a bit weird... more of the "sci-fi writers have no sense of scale thing," I'm thinking. Then again, it could be propaganda by the government, and we know Clark is a very short-sighted kind of dictator.

It was "two dozen" worlds not "two thousand".

[Yukaphile]

Weird. I dunno how I missed that on my recent watch-through... was it that unimportant I forgot so soon?

[Taurian Patriot]

Are we not still in a war in Iraq that was aided into being by news reports not being sufficiently critical of US government claims that there were WMDs in Iraq? The American press is always in favor of getting into a war, it simply has no interest in the doldrums of continuing conflict.

Even before that, there was hardly a day in early 2001 that went by without CNN reporting how Saddam Hussein was flaunting his disregard for the UN by dodging his compliance with Resolution 1441, which ordered him to give full access to weapons inspectors after the Gulf War. The resolution put the burden of proof on Hussein to show that he didn't have WMDs, and his constant dicking around in the face of the UN's empty threats was the initial premise of the invasion - to do the job that the UN wouldn't. It wasn't until after the invasion that the news suddenly stopped talking about Resolution 1441 and shifted focus to the great WMD hunt as the new justification.

I'm convinced that some suit at CNN was remembering how the Gulf War made the network a household name, and was determined to take the opportunity of some post-9/11 tensions to get a repeat performance. No matter what their politics are, nothing gets people glued to TV like night-vision gun battles lit up with tracer rounds like goddamn Star Wars.

[G-Man]

I have to wonder here if G'Kar was covering his ass a wee bit here, since he claims the Centauri were gathering here to use mass drivers, and while they found the blueprints in the ship... we see later on that it's a genuine shock to Londo that Reefa wants to use them (and he was in a position of genuine authority, he made this possible, so no way they would not tell him), and later episodes imply they just grabbed 'em from the asteroid field in the solar system of the Narn homeworld to throw at the planet. Very spur of the moment. Not planned out. Besides, how much planning is needed to tractor an asteroid to a nearby world?

Well, it strikes me that there is a difference between having mass drivers and using them - and perhaps there are legitimate military uses that Londo would see as forgiveable. In any case, it was not the use of mass drivers alone that bothered Londo, but their use on the Narn homeworld. Using them on a far-flung colony or on a planetary military outpost is a different thing than using them on a world with a population at least in the ten figures.

Also, mass drivers are not asteroids. They are the linear motors used to catapult the asteroids. The payload itself is almost always going to be taken from the system of the planet being attacked, because it is a more efficient way to get mass than transporting large chunks of matter through hyperspace.

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

A fun episode. It contains a couple of B5's better comedy bits, especially the psycorps ad. It serves a useful purpose in showcasing the characters' views and their current relationship to Earth. Also, having characters from the outside come in and react to B5 gives the audience a chance to step back and look at the heroes from a broader in-universe perspective. As is the case in Stargate episodes where they get grilled by an outsider (I'm looking forward to whenever Chuck reviews "Heroes" from season 8 SG-1), a hidden/dishonest motive on the part of the outsider doesn't totally negate the criticisms they present.

As others have been saying, obviously biased news is hardly a new thing. In the 19th century many papers were openly partisan, with some adopting their preferred party name as its own (and some of those are still extant). That can have its problems, obviously, but personally I like to read both sides of an issue and reach my own conclusions. A supposedly neutral paper clouding and distorting facts, or misleading the public on an issue they don't recognize as inherently political, is more pernicious.

In some ways this episode is unlucky in that it aired only shortly before the internet era. The sort of things it says about a Pravda-like propaganda arm wasn't new even for television, and it couldn't anticipate the still-not-fully-understood effect the internet and social media has had on how we think about, consume, and relay news- and any information, really. Considering that, the episode comes off as better than might be expected.