DIS - Project Deadalus

[FlynnTaggart]

Tbh, I hate Tilly more than Michael. A completely obnoxious character who only gets a pass because she has a large rack. Seriously, that is the only defence I ever see of her: ''yeah she's annoying, but what about that jogging scene in her T-shirt hur hur hur.''
Make no mistake, she may not wear a Troi/Seven of Nine/T'Pol catsuit, but the old ways of casting at least one woman to be there just because she is top heavy have not gone.

Which, imo, makes Michael even more amusing as a concept. They went all out to have an ultra strong female character... then fell into the tired old trope of the fanservice girl. C'mon guys, one or the other.

I will preface this by saying I like Tilly and not just because of Tilly's...... athleticism but I think she is a bad example of juvenile stupidity especially compared to Tit'Pol and Bimborg of DD. Atleast from what I've watched of the show they haven't really sexualized her. She jogged, and as far as I know or remember it was only the once, and it a pretty tame outfit, the exact same outfit ultra strong female character was wearing the only difference being Tilly has some tig ol bitties and Micheal does not. "Big" girls bounce. Was it included for juvenile reasons? Probably but I don't think its overtly sexual anymore then any "big" woman running is. Certainly no decontamination gel.

Any other time Tilly is wearing a pretty baggy jumpsuit that isn't exactly sexy unless you are into like plumbers. She definitely isn't very sexualized save maybe that one bit of them jogging and I just don't feel even then it was overtly sexual.

Not a defense of STD or saying the show ain't juvenile. Micheal's ass hugging space suit, actual bewbs, dual dicked Klingons, and the "evil is bisexual" Emperor but for Tilly I don't think she is the 7 or T'Pol or even Troi of the show.

I can certainly understand how she rubs some people the wrong way, she a perky thing (no double entendre intended) that doesn't fit with the rest of the crew. Probably why I like her.

[JL_Stinger]

I hate Tilly more than Michael. A completely obnoxious character who only gets a pass because she has a large rack.

But she has Space Asperger's! Star Trek needs that so people with autism can relate to the show better. Why do you hate neurodiversity?

[JL_Stinger]

I would like to point out that with the coming of ST:PIC, Admiral Satee's fears of a mass Romulan plot against the Federation has proven to be 100% correct.

To be fair, that plot only occurred after the Romulan Empire was wrecked by the Dominion War then had their homeworlds destroyed by a super massive black hole.

[GreyICE]

I'm pretty sure the only person who has mentioned Tilly's "rack" is clearspica. To the surprise of, well, no one.

Tilly is a fun character in a show that's been lacking in fun or humor. It makes her slightly out of place, sure, but in a good way. Star Trek needs its moments of levity. It's had them at its best times. What makes Data beloved? Well, many reasons, but the ongoing humor was a big reason. Everyone can think of a dozen funny Data scenes. What makes Quark and Odo's interactions beloved? Great actors the both of them, and they're funny. We are watching an optimistic show (or at least we should be). How can you watch optimism without a smile on your face?

Tilly doesn't need to change to be more like Discovery, Discovery needs to change to be the right place for Tilly because Mary Wiseman has killer comedic timing, and that's something that this show should be taking advantage of. Having yet another super serious character playing Broody McBroodface would fit with the show, sure. But it wouldn't improve the show. Tilly should be an aspirational character for Discovery. They need to point to writers, point to Tilly, and say "write an episode she'd fit in with - just as she is now." Mirror Universe Captain Tilly was the one thing I actually enjoyed in that entire fucking debacle.

And yes, this episode was a lovely piece of whiplash, and marks the start of Season 2's nosedive into being Season 1 again. Hopefully they got it out of their system. It worked on TNG, right?

[ChrisTheLovableJerk]

I'm still confused why they thought giving Spock a half-sibling never seen or mentioned before would be a good idea. I mean...they do remember how well that went over in The Final Frontier, right? Wouldn't it have made more sense for Michael to have been Sarek's apprentice or some such thing? The whole sibling thing really doesn't add much and just feels shoehorned in. Then again, this show did give us the Spore Drive and turned Harry Mudd into a sadistic monster, so there's probably no idea too dumb for them.

[Makeshift Python]

I like that the second season actually tried to do something with that relation, whether successful or not. Remember, during the first season it was originally stated by producers that Spock would never make an appearance in the show, and that the focus on her familial relation was only relevant with Sarek and his relationship with humans, the most notable being the Joe Menosky penned "Lethe". It was an odd idea to introduce and largely do little with it during the first season, so having the writers attempt to give it more meaning during the second season was admirable IMO. In the end, Michael travels a thousand years into the future which I think is a reasonable explanation for why she's never brought up in TOS and beyond: She's just no longer a part of Spock's life.

[Linkara]

Let's bring this back to the actual episode instead of yet another "why I hate Discovery/modern Trek/etc." hatefest. I overall like this episode, but it's indicative of a few problems of the show- Oh, goddamn it...

Erm, anyway - Airiam, in an episode where we finally, TRULY learn more about her as a person and not just a background makeup effect... is killed off. And not just killed off, but killed off stupidly. Blowing her out into space is fine... but why the hell couldn't Discovery beam her up into the brig? I commented on this when I first saw the episode, and maybe I missed a line of dialogue, but I don't think there was anything in there that indicated she couldn't just be beamed up again once she was clear of the station. Discovery is WASTEFUL. That's one of its biggest issues.

I was so happy when Spock called out Michael for her BS that made everything about her... and then the show went ahead and made it all about her anyway. I'm with Chuck - I don't hate Michael, I hate how the goddamn universe revolves around her in every little way.

[Gromomir]

"We kept our best ships and crews away from the war so they survivie if we lost" - that is how you lose at war, by not bringing your best

[Hero_Of_Shadows]

Why I feel Tilly's character works:

She's Michael's friend so that means she gets a lot of screen time, well as much as a non-Michael can get.

But at the same time she is not Michael which means she's likeable.

[clearspira]

I'm pretty sure the only person who has mentioned Tilly's "rack" is clearspica. To the surprise of, well, no one.

Tilly is a fun character in a show that's been lacking in fun or humor. It makes her slightly out of place, sure, but in a good way. Star Trek needs its moments of levity. It's had them at its best times. What makes Data beloved? Well, many reasons, but the ongoing humor was a big reason. Everyone can think of a dozen funny Data scenes. What makes Quark and Odo's interactions beloved? Great actors the both of them, and they're funny. We are watching an optimistic show (or at least we should be). How can you watch optimism without a smile on your face?

Tilly doesn't need to change to be more like Discovery, Discovery needs to change to be the right place for Tilly because Mary Wiseman has killer comedic timing, and that's something that this show should be taking advantage of. Having yet another super serious character playing Broody McBroodface would fit with the show, sure. But it wouldn't improve the show. Tilly should be an aspirational character for Discovery. They need to point to writers, point to Tilly, and say "write an episode she'd fit in with - just as she is now." Mirror Universe Captain Tilly was the one thing I actually enjoyed in that entire fucking debacle.

And yes, this episode was a lovely piece of whiplash, and marks the start of Season 2's nosedive into being Season 1 again. Hopefully they got it out of their system. It worked on TNG, right?

OK, GreyIce, I'm calling it: your alternate handle wouldn't be Mecha by any chance would it? Because he seems to have vanished and you appeared roughly the same time and did so with the exact same attitude towards me.

Also, ''killer'' comedic timing? How? When? Just saying it doesn't make it true.