DIS - Project Deadalus

[Makeshift Python]

Becuase any trek fan know that nothing important would happen in the past becuase if it was it would be mention.

That's a very narrow minded approach by fans. These show span so many centuries, there's plenty of room for new stories. It honestly didn't matter to me that something like the Xindi arc was never mentioned in previous Treks. I very much disagree with the conceit that the only things that should be covered in prequels are concepts we're already fully aware of.

does anyone know why i keep seeing so many people bashing picard?

it had a strong start and some decent work, got a little weak at the end and it was a little clunky but it was ok.

Plenty of reasons depending on who you talk to, like those who don't like how the Federation was depicted as being less than ideal, thus a "betrayal" of what Roddenberry laid out. I find that unconvincing, given how we've seen Starfleet behave questionably on plenty of occasions, even as far as CONDONING genocide TWICE, and yet it was always up to our protagonists who had to stand up against such things.

[RobbyB1982]

does anyone know why i keep seeing so many people bashing picard?

it had a strong start and some decent work, got a little weak at the end and it was a little clunky but it was ok.

Because it was needlessly dark and violent, lacking in hope and optimism, and not at all what anyone expected or wanted from a TNG follow up.

There's a time and a place for bleak dark fantasy and Star Trek isn't it. This same basic story as a Battlestar Galactica miniseries would have been okay, but not for Trek.

A little darkness is fine, that makes the light shine brighter, but when you're violently disecting old characters with graphic blood sprays and eyeball removals, and over on Discovery having full frontal Klingon rape scenes, on Star Trek, something's gone wrong.

Plenty of reasons depending on who you talk to, like those who don't like how the Federation was depicted as being less than ideal, thus a "betrayal" of what Roddenberry laid out. I find that unconvincing, given how we've seen Starfleet behave questionably on plenty of occasions, even as far as CONDONING genocide TWICE, and yet it was always up to our protagonists who had to stand up against such things.

I'm fine with Starfleet not being perfect and Picard stepping away. I'm fine with characters cursing and 7 of 9 becoming a vigilante crusader. I'm fine with there being sex in the show and characters dying by surprise.

But the ever present bleakness and dark pallette and constant murder and death and more death and talking constantly about dying and graphic on screen gore and all the characters being beaten down hopeless people with failed lives... too much.

When Star Trek does something that makes me look away from the screen becaue I don't want to be grossed out, its not right. I don't want Star Trek to be Game of Thrones, dark for darkness sake. You can have the complexity and cinematogrophy and ongoing plots and the human aspect of it, but you don't need the R rated stuff.

[BunBun299]

An example of a good amount of Darkness in Star Trek would, IMO, be In The Pale Moonlight. Sisko, in an attempt to fight a great evil, finds himself getting pulled further and further into doing bad things. He bribes Quark to cover up an assault, he traffics in a controlled substance. Ultimately, he ends up an ascessory to half a dozen murders, the Forger, the Romulan Senator and his 4 bodyguards. And Sisko knows he has to live with all of this for the rest of his days, even though it will end up saving hundreds of billions of lives. It's one of the best hours of television ever made.

If Discovery or Picard had done anything like this, we would have seen Garek violently and graphically eviscerated the Forger, blow him out the airlock, and then lick the blood off his knife. Sisko would have reacted with a shrug. None of the soul searching struggle to cope with it all that was the core of the episode.

[FlynnTaggart]

does anyone know why i keep seeing so many people bashing picard?

it had a strong start and some decent work, got a little weak at the end and it was a little clunky but it was ok.

If definitely had a strong start but just got progressively worse. Its the Darker and Edgier spinoff that seems to be trying to prove the theory that Star Trek is a prequel to Warhammer 40k correct. Needless character deaths that bordered on gore, dumb dark and edgy stuff like cursing, drugs, and organ harvesting that all seemed to exist just to show how "mature" the show was. Captain Hologram guy showing up with some random piece of metal sticking out of him and using alcohol to numb the pain to show how much of a rebel he is because the writers apparently learned from Okona and figured they had to actually show rather then tell. A Federation that has completely divorced itself from any sort of build a better tomorrow organization. A galaxy that just seems a horrible place, depressing and ugly.

Which all that might, MIGHT, be excusable if the plot was worth watching but its not. Finding Data's daughter who is apparently robot Jesus to stop yet another galaxy ending threat that wasn't interesting when Mass Effect did it in red green and blue going against some shadowy Romulan conspiracy group who hate synthetic lifeforms despite the Romulans never giving a darn before. Its not a good plot, its not interesting, and its not fun to watch.

Which is the main thing atleast I personally didn't like about it, its not fun. Its dark, depressing, ugly, "mature" which is just juvenile, and seems almost like a darker and edgier parody of ST like the "younger, edgier" bit from Stargate SG1 episode 200 (that apparently someone took seriously and made Stargate Universe) or that Power Rangers fan film.

Not saying there is anything wrong with liking the show, just personally I did not, it (to me) didn't feel like Star Trek at all. If I wanted to watch something about a corrupt humanity dealing with pointy eared d-bags fighting robots with a bunch of blood and gore and doom and gloom I'd go play a Warhammer 40k video game.

[Makeshift Python]

Speaking of Icheb, I can't say I was all that touched over his death. It had nothing to do with the graphic violence but the fact that I never cared for him on VOYAGER, or any of the Borg children. So when he died my reaction was "tough luck". He always represented to me a unneeded distraction for the show, something to take away from what it should have been focusing more on like it's very concept. I could be learning more about Chakotay and how he's grown, but instead I get yet another twerp who wants to join Starfleet because apparently that's what every kid aspires to do unless you're Jake Sisko.

[CrypticMirror]

does anyone know why i keep seeing so many people bashing picard?

it had a strong start and some decent work, got a little weak at the end and it was a little clunky but it was ok.

If definitely had a strong start but just got progressively worse.

Really? I felt it started super weak, but improved and got more like Classic Next Generation Trek as it improved across the season. I mean episode one fridges a woman just to start the plot, and it lumbers ploddingly along without much happening for five whole episodes. Once Picard actually starts getting into space is when it picks up.

[TGLS]

I dunno, I think the story worked in concept but the pacing was all screwed up.

[CaptainCalvinCat]

does anyone know why i keep seeing so many people bashing picard?

it had a strong start and some decent work, got a little weak at the end and it was a little clunky but it was ok.

Personally, I'd say, "Diese Leute haben mächtig einen an der Waffel" (these persons are not in their right mind). Sure, I have my own problems with Picard, mostly, that people die left, right and center. I was no big fan of Ichebs death, was not sure, why the authors thought, it would've been necessary, was not sure, why the authors needed to kill Maddox and Data (again?!), however the death and return of Jean Luc Picard was something, I was completely on board with.

[Makeshift Python]

I felt Data's death in PIC was handled so much better than how it was handled in NEMESIS, in the sense that it really felt more like something true from TNG than the film did. I assume this was Spiner wanting to stick the landing after it didn't work out nearly 20 years ago.

[FlynnTaggart]

Really? I felt it started super weak, but improved and got more like Classic Next Generation Trek as it improved across the season. I mean episode one fridges a woman just to start the plot, and it lumbers ploddingly along without much happening for five whole episodes. Once Picard actually starts getting into space is when it picks up.

I personally liked the slower start in this case. I think it worked to world build and help establish the character of Picard feeling old and retired. He's a sick old man being pulled back into action, it starting with splosions and war crimes I don't think would have been as good. There was certainly some dumb stuff like fridging the robot girl (which I will admit for clarity's sake doesn't bother me as a trope, to me its an annoying trope to fridge anyone with potential like the robot girl, the action itself bothers me when its done badly or horrifically like a certain shotgun blasted kid, not against it just for a storytelling device if handled correctly, Dahj's death was dumb to me because it carried no weight as she was just replaced with an identical twin), Admiral McCursey, and robot girl's boyfriend's hair (felt bad for the guy but something about his hair kinda disturbed me, it looked so off) but there was a lot I liked.

Once it got into space, to me, it felt any existing flaws were dialed up higher plus added on the senseless gore, pointless character deaths, dumb plots, dumb settings, dumb organizations, and dumb plots. Just felt like it got more juvenile and dumb.

I can certainly understand how the slow start might bore some people though, I'd usually be in that category.