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Re: STar Trek Voyager - False Profits
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:50 pm
by bronnt
BlackoutCreature2 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:00 pm
I would think a six foot tall Ferengi showing up would kind of give away the plan.
If it's a height issue, surely they've got at least one other short crewman. But okay, we're stuck with the main cast. We've still got Garret Wang who has first-hand experience with Ferengi. Or, since we're using plastic surgery anyway, Janeway or Torres could pose as a male Ferengi-in those bulky Ferengi costumes it shouldn't be too hard to pose as a male.
I still struggle to believe that Neelix is the logical choice, unless this whole episode is intended as a farce about the bumbling crew trying and failing to come up with clever plans.
Re: STar Trek Voyager - False Profits
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:14 pm
by FaxModem1
I think this is was an episode built by pure expectations.
'The Price had a wormhole from the Alpha Quadrant to the Delta Quadrant, so since our show is all about getting from the latter to the former, we have to include it.'
'But it has Ferengi in it.'
'Okay, DS9 uses them for comedy episodes, so we'll do one on that.'
'But then we'll have the Ferengi and the wormhole to deal with.'
'Don't worry, we'll deal with both right now. No need for recurring characters or plot elements.'
Etc. Etc. Until nothing if consequence happened and another hour of television was wasted.
EDIT: Now that I think about it, what wasted potential. Think of the trouble Voyager had with the con artists in Live Fast and Prosper. Imagine if the Ferengi duo were always a step ahead every few episodes with some crazy get rich scheme, and Voyager had to clean up the mess. It's require some better written comedy, but it could work to show that actions have consequences in the Delta Quadrant.
Re: STar Trek Voyager - False Profits
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:22 pm
by Linkara
I do kind of get why the Ferengi wouldn't try to set up anything more advanced than retirement among locals who worship them as gods. The technology these people have is so primitive that they could never hope to TEACH them how to use it or build similar objects or even more advanced foundations. Since it's season 3, they're still relatively close to Kazon territory, so trying to trade with the locals (especially aggressive ones) while all they have is a shuttle would be foolhardy, and while they COULD potentially exploit the locals for building up the beginnings of a business empire, that would also bring up the potential for competitors or other figures who would assassinate them for their business. Remember - under a Ferengi viewpoint, everyone else is a potential business rival, even the dumb locals (especially if you educate those locals).
Conversely, the replicator can already produce any objects they may want, the locals are cowed in fear of supposed Gods (meaning attacking them could invoke a good ol' smiting), and the ultimate goal of most successful business leaders and the wealthy is to live comfortably and never want for anything, so if the locals provide that for you anyway, why not just retire with the local currency and be attended upon.
Re: STar Trek Voyager - False Profits
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:29 pm
by ChrisTheLovableJerk
clearspira wrote: ↑Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:59 pm
I was wondering if Chuck would ever joke about CA. Although I must admit I don't think comparing them to Ferengi works as from what I read on the Channel Awesome document doing the rounds, most of their (alleged) worst moments were due to incompetence and maliciousness, not greed.
Considering how they kinda screwed over MikeJ; had him make a short film for the fifth year anniversary special only didn't give him a budget or pay him anything for it, and sold it on DVD without giving him a cut of the profits or any sort of payment, I think there was some greed involved.
Re: STar Trek Voyager - False Profits
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:35 pm
by Rocketboy1313
Linkara wrote: ↑Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:22 pm
I do kind of get why the Ferengi wouldn't try to set up anything more advanced than retirement among locals who worship them as gods. The technology these people have is so primitive that they could never hope to TEACH them how to use it or build similar objects or even more advanced foundations. Since it's season 3, they're still relatively close to Kazon territory, so trying to trade with the locals (especially aggressive ones) while all they have is a shuttle would be foolhardy, and while they COULD potentially exploit the locals for building up the beginnings of a business empire, that would also bring up the potential for competitors or other figures who would assassinate them for their business. Remember - under a Ferengi viewpoint, everyone else is a potential business rival, even the dumb locals (especially if you educate those locals).
Conversely, the replicator can already produce any objects they may want, the locals are cowed in fear of supposed Gods (meaning attacking them could invoke a good ol' smiting), and the ultimate goal of most successful business leaders and the wealthy is to live comfortably and never want for anything, so if the locals provide that for you anyway, why not just retire with the local currency and be attended upon.
I don't know. With scanners, transporters, and an army of people who see them as gods they could easily do to the natives what Conquistadors did to the Inca.
Sure they don't NEED a pyramid of marble flanked by massive statues of themselves done up in gold, piles of silk and tribute rolling in from all over the countryside. But, for pretending to be gods they aim shockingly low. Especially for a culture that is so greedy to the man.
There is just a general lack of ambition, these guys weren't just ferengi, they were sent to study wormholes on behalf of their government, there should be more to them.
Re: STar Trek Voyager - False Profits
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:39 pm
by CrypticMirror
The Ferengi are greedy but stupid, and I can see why Trek might want to condemn that. I just wish that our heroes were not presented as dumb as anything in order to achieve it. I wish they had kept the Ferengi on the show too. Make them unwilling passengers/prisoners confined to quarters and recreation areas, and you could still get some drama and comedy out of them. It would have shaken the Status Quo up a bit.
Frankly I always thought it was a major failing of the show to almost never take on new crew apart from Seven of Nine. They are shorthanded to start with and the Neelix School of Survival Tactics gets several goldshirts killed. They ought to have been forced to take on crew, for the scutwork and to free up the more skilled staff if nothing else. Taken on aspiring Delta Quadrant explorers, helped build community, diplomacy, expanded knowledge, culture, and family with disparate peoples; but that might have turned it into a Star Trek show or something.
Re: STar Trek Voyager - False Profits
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:45 pm
by Sir Will
Linkara wrote: ↑Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:22 pm
I do kind of get why the Ferengi wouldn't try to set up anything more advanced than retirement among locals who worship them as gods. The technology these people have is so primitive that they could never hope to TEACH them how to use it or build similar objects or even more advanced foundations. Since it's season 3, they're still relatively close to Kazon territory, so trying to trade with the locals (especially aggressive ones) while all they have is a shuttle would be foolhardy, and while they COULD potentially exploit the locals for building up the beginnings of a business empire, that would also bring up the potential for competitors or other figures who would assassinate them for their business. Remember - under a Ferengi viewpoint, everyone else is a potential business rival, even the dumb locals (especially if you educate those locals).
Conversely, the replicator can already produce any objects they may want, the locals are cowed in fear of supposed Gods (meaning attacking them could invoke a good ol' smiting), and the ultimate goal of most successful business leaders and the wealthy is to live comfortably and never want for anything, so if the locals provide that for you anyway, why not just retire with the local currency and be attended upon.
Exactly. I think he was a little harsh. I don't have an issue with them deciding to just live like gods and be worshipped. They have power over these people and the replicator for their needs, that's wealth enough. Although they may eventually have energy issues with their tech. I'm with the people saying these two just aren't that bright so this is the best they could really go for anyway.
And as for the PD, I also agree with someone earlier who said it was justified because somebody was already interfering. I think it's fine for them to want to stop it. I don't have a problem with that either. The episode is not without problems or logic leaps, but I think it's a fine episode overall.
Re: STar Trek Voyager - False Profits
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:57 pm
by aceina
i loved the burn he gave CA
Re: STar Trek Voyager - False Profits
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:27 pm
by Seaward
Sir Will wrote: ↑Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:45 pm
Exactly. I think he was a little harsh. I don't have an issue with them deciding to just live like gods and be worshipped. They have power over these people and the replicator for their needs, that's wealth enough. Although they may eventually have power issues. I'm with the people saying these two just aren't that bright so this is the best they could really go for anyway.
And as for the PD, I also agree with someone earlier who said it was justified because somebody was already interfering. I think it's fine for them to want to stop it. I don't have a problem with that either. The episode is not without problems or logic leaps, but I think it's a fine episode overall.
Yeah, I feel like Chuck is letting his anti-Voyager, Neelix and Ferengi episode feelings turn into full fledged biases here, at least with regards to the details. The overall score seems pretty fair. But I can't say I'm all that inclined to judge him for it, considering you get all three at once.
Re: STar Trek Voyager - False Profits
Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:17 am
by SFDebris
Remember that the day before I wrote this, the ceiling collapsed while I was putting in a 16 hour day on my birthday. Neelix gets every body-punch I can give him on days like that.