DIS: Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

[Ikiry0]

If Saru's species experiences anxiety all or most of the time as a survival instinct, they probably have a higher tolerance to it than humans, and the mental health field would be less inclined to label it as a problem in their case. After all, it doesn't appear to cause him behavioral problems under normal conditions-- in fact, it was after Saru's anxiety was taken away that he began acting irrationally and violently towards his coworkers, which would probably be a known issue and a good reason specifically not to try and treat their fears the same way human anxiety is treated. Its like why humans aren't considered abnormal by Vulcans for experiencing and acting on emotions-- our survival instincts are tied to those emotions, and because they are actually not felt as strongly as a Vulcan's emotions are there is less need to exert conscious control over them. Different neural systems, different instincts, different mental norms. It all makes perfect sense.

By the same token, Saru's constant anxiety does very clearly cause him distress and very much affects his day to day actions, causing him trouble when dealing with things like 'a war'.

[Nevix]

If Saru's species experiences anxiety all or most of the time as a survival instinct, they probably have a higher tolerance to it than humans, and the mental health field would be less inclined to label it as a problem in their case. After all, it doesn't appear to cause him behavioral problems under normal conditions-- in fact, it was after Saru's anxiety was taken away that he began acting irrationally and violently towards his coworkers, which would probably be a known issue and a good reason specifically not to try and treat their fears the same way human anxiety is treated. Its like why humans aren't considered abnormal by Vulcans for experiencing and acting on emotions-- our survival instincts are tied to those emotions, and because they are actually not felt as strongly as a Vulcan's emotions are there is less need to exert conscious control over them. Different neural systems, different instincts, different mental norms. It all makes perfect sense.

By the same token, Saru's constant anxiety does very clearly cause him distress and very much affects his day to day actions, causing him trouble when dealing with things like 'a war'.

Saru isn't used to sensing death constantly, which is the state that "a war" puts him into.

Vulcans also have stronger emotions than humans, but they control and suppress them. This was shown with Picard's mind meld with an old Vulcan diplomat who was losing control of his emotions.

On a general note: Discovery barely feels like Star Trek to me.

Only Magic To Make The Sanest Man Go Mad actually felt like a true Star Trek adventure. The rest have been something else in the Star Trek universe.

I'm not sure why that is.

[CrypticMirror]

Saru is basically the Neelix of this show. Whoever thought that the idea of a herbivore highstrung race of livestock with a fear boner crest ought to be fired (out of a torpedo port). Even in a show that has magic space mushrooms as the method of propulsion, Saru was the dumbest idea.

[TheLibrarian]

The thing that bugs me about this episode:
At the end of the episode it revealed that Saru wasn't mind controlled but that he did every thing of his own free will. That's an interesting plot twist, but...shouldn't he be in the brig? I mean, just off the top of my head, we've got assault of fellow officers, destruction of Star Fleet property, dereliction of duty, and attempted desertion in a time of war.

Eh, Worf outright murdered a potential head-of-state and almost threw a wrench into the Federation's diplomatic agenda, and he got away with a reprimand (admittedly it helped that he knew what he was doing within the Klingon honour code). And that was under Picard! Lorca's doing so much shady shit on Discovery Saru's punishment is probably to sit in his quarters for an hour and think about what he's done.

[clearspira]

Saru is basically the Neelix of this show. Whoever thought that the idea of a herbivore highstrung race of livestock with a fear boner crest ought to be fired (out of a torpedo port). Even in a show that has magic space mushrooms as the method of propulsion, Saru was the dumbest idea.

Yeah, agree entirely. No one likes cowards either in real life or on film. Its just a fact and it has been a fact since the dawn of time; just read a few Greek myths for evidence of that. I have no idea why this species is even allowed to join front line starships because they are a complete liability. And I apologise if this offends anyone, but I am honestly picturing some Federation SJW crying about racism whenever the subject of the coward race being given important roles comes up. That is literally the only in-universe reason I can see why he is there.

[MixedDrops]

Or you know, maybe in a universe where Humans are also outclassed in almost every aspect by at least one race yet somehow still end up in command and leadership positions all the time, it can also be seen that other races like Kelpiens can rise above their base instincts and perform their duties just fine. Kind of like what Trek has always been about, but okay, something something SJWs (that's without mentioning the fact that there's been 0 evidence so far that Saru can't perform his regular duties just fine despite his base instincts of fear). I can't wait until a modern edition of Far Beyond the Stars to see some of the mental gymnastics that will come in response to that.

Also I hear a lot of people hating the Kelpiens as a concept- anyone mind elaborating beyond "it's a bad idea because it's dumb"?

If I'm getting this right, within the first page I see complaints people not liking this episode because the weird god-like alien thing is too Trek-cliche, and the other half like to complain that it's not enough like Trek. Okay then.

[Madner Kami]

What does fear do to you. Think about it. Overcoming fear and thinking with a clear head is a crucial element of a soldier and commanding officer. An entire race that can't help but be skittish 99% of the time, just is not going to be any sort of material that you would want bring into a critical situation. It's like you are taking a group of sheep to hunt wolves. It's just stupid.

Now, obviously, individuals of such a race could overcome their base instincts, but throwing them into the place of a "second in command" before they had their enlightening moment? Dumb. Plain dumb.

[Darth Wedgius]

Just as a note, being biologically very sensitive to fear doesn't necessarily make you good at handling it. There are animals very attuned to running away that can die of stress during attempts to rescue or relocate them. They may be built to go wild with adrenaline for several minutes, but not able to keep that going for much longer without something breaking down. And Saru's been at it for, what, weeks? Months?

I can see people being annoyed that Saru was less reliable in one crisis than, um, Fluttershy. I honestly don't know how I feel about that. If one irrational dereliction of duty were grounds to keep someone out of a front-line chain of command, we'd be following Michael's story at Starfleet Women's Detention Center #47 in "Yellow is the New Red."

[clearspira]

What does fear do to you. Think about it. Overcoming fear and thinking with a clear head is a crucial element of a soldier and commanding officer. An entire race that can't help but be skittish 99% of the time, just is not going to be any sort of material that you would want bring into a critical situation. It's like you are taking a group of sheep to hunt wolves. It's just stupid.

Now, obviously, individuals of such a race could overcome their base instincts, but throwing them into the place of a "second in command" before they had their enlightening moment? Dumb. Plain dumb.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

[clearspira]

Just as a note, being biologically very sensitive to fear doesn't necessarily make you good at handling it. There are animals very attuned to running away that can die of stress during attempts to rescue or relocate them. They may be built to go wild with adrenaline for several minutes, but not able to keep that going for much longer without something breaking down. And Saru's been at it for, what, weeks? Months?

I can see people being annoyed that Saru was less reliable in one crisis than, um, Fluttershy. I honestly don't know how I feel about that. If one irrational dereliction of duty were grounds to keep someone out of a front-line chain of command, we'd be following Michael's story at Starfleet Women's Detention Center #47 in "Yellow is the New Red."

In real life, Burnham would never be trusted again and her tour of prison is exactly what we would be following. Serious dereliction of duty, even a single case, is frequently grounds put someone as far back from the front as they possibly can. An easy way to get around this would have been to have, y'know, not made her a dirty traitor in the first place.