DS9 - The Collaborator

[Rocketboy1313]

The DS9 books expand on Bajoran history a bit. They show that in the past, they were a bit like the Dominion in many ways, having a space-faring theocratic empire that subjugated other cultures.

I tend to think that they are based a bit more on the Jews though, what with the background of being highly religious and oppressed by foreign conquerors and how that impacted their identity.

I often see the comparison to the Jews, but I see them more as India under British rule.
The Caste system that broke down, the appeals to nationalism, the multitudes of gods, being a previously colonial power doesn't quite fit unless you look at the Mughals who were non-Hindus.

The Bajorans are a mishmash of ideas so that you don't get too much 1-to-1 racial caricatures which happens in other media (look at Netflix's "Bright" on that front).

I do like the idea of them being a theocratic expansionist power tho, that adds a lot of dimension to them. Especially in contrast to the Dominion and Cardasia. Like the parallels of the Martians beating up the British Empire in "War of the Worlds".

[Rocketboy1313]

I know one of the writers for DS9 had a map of Bajor, so that anything established would be consistent, so that Bajor would feel cohesive. However, they still sometimes messed up. For instance, the number of moons Bajor has changed over the years.

Those poor Bajoran werewolves.

[bronnt]

When I saw the title, I wasn't sure what episode this was at first...until I read the description and realized it's one of the most significant plot advancements to come out of the first two seasons.

I just realized that Chuck has never delved into the "death" of Kai Opaka and how pointless and silly it was, and how problematic it is for the lore of the show.

For example: A spiritual leader of a planet goes off in a runabout with three Federation officers and one single Bajoran military officer. All of the Starfleet Officers returned alive but not the Kai. Even with Kira to vouch for them, how are there not riots on the planet that result from the suspicion of unsavory business?

Also, consider this-there's a moon out there in the Gamma Quadrant where a highly revered spiritual leader is granted functional immortality. That place would become one of the most holy sites in the Bajoran faith and you'd have people regularly making pilgrimmage there to consult with the Kai, regardless of the risks. Heck, there's probably people who would willing go there to die on the planet to live out the rest of their existence alongside the blessed Kai.

[Sir Will]

Huh, good point. Maybe they lied about her still being 'alive'.

[Darth Wedgius]

I think the Bajorans might have been as hard on the Kai for operating in a gray area as we are on Cosby. Remember what SFDebris mentioned regarding how French women were treated for sleeping with the enemy. We can't really go by how we would treat this revelation.

[clearspira]

Let me put in my agreement for Winn's hat looking ridiculous. Another example of the lack of imagination in Star Trek alien design. ''Bajorans have wrinkled noses therefore their hats will also be wrinkled. Make it so.''
Its not just them either given the Cardassians have a spoon on their armour. ''Cardassians have spoons on their head therefore so will their armour and a good part of their architecture. Make it so.''
At least the Ferengi's obsession with ears make sense as it is a penis analogue in an ultra patriarchal society.

[bronnt]

Huh, good point. Maybe they lied about her still being 'alive'.

"And it's far too dangerous for anyone to go visit her. Also, she refused to return even if we ever came up with a solution that would allow her to live off the planet because she said this is the path she's meant to walk.

"But trust us, we would NEVER harm your spiritual leader."

EDIT:

I just imagined that, somewhere, Captain Picard is shouting. "What the hell, Worf? We weren't even ON Bajor that long, how were you able to set up a Number 7? Ugh...okay, we'll just have to say there's a 'dampening field' surrounding the moon that keeps any messages from reaching the surface."

[clearspira]

When I saw the title, I wasn't sure what episode this was at first...until I read the description and realized it's one of the most significant plot advancements to come out of the first two seasons.

I just realized that Chuck has never delved into the "death" of Kai Opaka and how pointless and silly it was, and how problematic it is for the lore of the show.

For example: A spiritual leader of a planet goes off in a runabout with three Federation officers and one single Bajoran military officer. All of the Starfleet Officers returned alive but not the Kai. Even with Kira to vouch for them, how are there not riots on the planet that result from the suspicion of unsavory business?

Also, consider this-there's a moon out there in the Gamma Quadrant where a highly revered spiritual leader is granted functional immortality. That place would become one of the most holy sites in the Bajoran faith and you'd have people regularly making pilgrimmage there to consult with the Kai, regardless of the risks. Heck, there's probably people who would willing go there to die on the planet to live out the rest of their existence alongside the blessed Kai.

I very much wonder if we have another Lt Carey on our hands where the writers believe that they killed her off for some reason which is why we have this strange situation. Otherwise the entire Bajoran and Federation people would be working together to rescue the friggin pope from a war torn rock. It might even have made for a good changeling plot later on.

[bronnt]

I very much wonder if we have another Lt Carey on our hands where the writers believe that they killed her off for some reason which is why we have this strange situation. Otherwise the entire Bajoran and Federation people would be working together to rescue the friggin pope from a war torn rock. It might even have made for a good changeling plot later on.

And it's not like Winn is so ethical that she'd avoid spreading rumors that Sisko is a false emissary who arranged the death of Kai Opaka to clear his own path to religious dominance. The idea of removing a religious rival in order to gain power is clearly something she's considered in the past.

Her supposed death in front of limited witnesses with a group of outsiders really could have raised a lot more questions.

[Yukaphile]

So happy he brought up the Sydney opera house again!

This episode just reminds me how much I hate Winn Adami. What I did like about her is that it proves clergymen can be politicians too. I HATE that.

Yet another reference to that piece of shit episode where they are victim-blaming war rape victims! That deserves nothing but endless scorn given how often people do it today.

I am disappointed he didn't bring up the way the Germans were treated, though. That was just as bad, and in fact probably worse because unlike every other huge population of victims back then, they don't get victim-blamed like German women and girls are, called "perpetrators of crimes against humanity" by soulless Feminists even if they are just harmless civilians not hurting a damn soul. And again, don't think this is me mourning those "Aryan women." I feel just as bad for women "liberated" from the camps and Jewish women those animals hunted down. They're all equally victims... except those guilty of such crimes. Why is that so damned hard to see? Why do people treat a victim of rape or multiple rape and forced prostitution and impregnation as equal to her attacker, as simultaneously victim and victimizer? It's so fucked up! When I see survivors come out with their stories in today's world, I see somebody who was left permanently ruined, living with that pain forever, the fear and the terror, and so propaganda works that try to paint them a certain way DO NOT HELP. Gah! It's just another way we live in a society of victim-blaming and rape culture. Nothing will ever convince me otherwise.

That said, I do like this episode, and I'm a bit let down he rated it so low, but still, I guess it is more than fair.