VOY - Equinox

[CharlesPhipps]

I dunno, I think that Janeways' crew not being as desperate as Ransoms is a stretch.

I like that it's more a Pegasus situation.

Same situation but one broke and the other didn't.

[CrypticMirror]

Lets face it. The real difference between the crews is that Voyager had a Tom "Ibid" Paris to save the day three times out of five, and Ransom didn't. All he had were the guys that Starfleet did want.

[Beastro]

How about the Equinox crew ACTUALLY joining Voyager, not just vanishing forever. I think having Ransom replace Chakotay as XO for a while and a Torres/Paris/BLT Guy love triangle would have shook up the show nicely.

The thing is Ransom is perfect for a redemption arc. John Savage plays troubled, sympathetic characters wonderfully. I'm reminded of the Outer Limits episode where he plays a supernatural being trying to save a guy on the run by that always stuck with me.

[clearspira]

Lets face it. The real difference between the crews is that Voyager had a Tom "Ibid" Paris to save the day three times out of five, and Ransom didn't. All he had were the guys that Starfleet did want.

Yeah, basically. But not just Paris. How many times did Kes, Tuvok and Seven having some kind of deus ex machina ability save this ship? Not to mention the insane luck of finding the mobile emitter for the Doctor.

[Madner Kami]

Lets face it. The real difference between the crews is that Voyager had a Tom "Ibid" Paris to save the day three times out of five, and Ransom didn't. All he had were the guys that Starfleet did want.

Yeah, basically. But not just Paris. How many times did Kes, Tuvok and Seven having some kind of deus ex machina ability save this ship? Not to mention the insane luck of finding the mobile emitter for the Doctor.

It can be argued that it wasn't luck, but predestination. Remember, this is a world where there are time traveling agents have their eyes on things happening "out of time". If the mobile emitter or Janeway going back and giving Voyager technology ten years ahead of it's time wouldn't be part of whatever they percieve as their "original" timeline, then they'd have interfered. They didn't, so it had to happen and thus was predestination.

[Thebestoftherest]

Do you guy think that if Voyager as presented here would have last as ling if presented to a modern audience?

[SpikePrime]

I dunno, I think that Janeways' crew not being as desperate as Ransoms is a stretch.

I like that it's more a Pegasus situation.

Same situation but one broke and the other didn't.

If you mean that Janeway's situation was somehow just as desperate as Ransom's, than you would have to ignore what is literally seen on screen every time we look at the Equinox in comparison to Voyager.

Point 1: Size & strength
Equinox is smaller, weaker, slower and less advanced than Voyager. It was built for short-range, scientific expeditions, and not for combat. Voyager, meanwhile, was specifically built with long-term space exploration in mind and had insane amounts of weaponry for something not built for war. So Equinox was already at a disadvantage compared with Voyager.

Point 2: Actual consequences
Equinox has been smashed to pieces and has actually faced consequences for the battles and general attacks against it. It's got massive punctures in the hull, barely functioning systems and even their turbo-lifts don't work. Besides that, more than 50% of Equinox's crew complement is dead. What's Voyager lost at that point? At most, a dozen people out of 200+ people? Sad, sure, but far fewer than even Picard lost in half as long, despite Janeway being in a more desperate situation than Picard by all measurements.

As said, all you have to do is look at Equinox for ten seconds, then look at Voyager, and you'd see Ransom's situation was far more desperate than Janeways, and she still made command decisions which were questionable at best, morally bankrupt at worst.

I'm not defending Ransom. His murder of innocent creatures is unforgiveable, and he should be put to justice for that crime. But Janeway's hardly innocent in all of this, and isn't in a position to judge him. And if she could make those decisions with working holodecks, replicators, turbo lifts and even just being able to keep the lights on... what the heck do you think she'd do if all that was stripped away and every day was hell for almost a decade, like Ransom's objectively worse situation?

[CharlesPhipps]

I think that fails given that Voyager has actually been destroyed. They just got better.

[Al-1701]

As I tried to start a thread, I think they should have been more creative in designing Voyager in the show. If it was a living ship like Tin Man, they could justify the miracle repairs as it healing. They could even have episodes where they're in hiding to give it time to heal from its wounds. They could even have it evolve should they decide to change some sets up. However, like the supposed "conflict" between the Starfleet and Maquis crews, the people running show demonstrated they were anything but creative with this show. They instead tried to act like substances made of the common elements in the universe (like water and deuterium) are scarce commodities.

But it would add to Ransom's rage. Here is this ship that could just get better from the battles it faced and even maybe even evolved along the way. Meanwhile, his ship is getting trashed and stays trashed.

Really, Equinox exposed the problems with the creative decisions that went into making Voyager and Paramount and Berman's cowardice.