Rick and Morty: The Hypothesis of Contradiction

[Beastro]

and Red Letter Media, they promote and glorify cynicism, that being cynical or hate-filled or just negativity equals intelligent and honesty, and thus they're saying to the audience that these actions are perfectly fine and reasonable,

I haven't seen that in RLM. They'll be positive about a movie/tape if it has is has something to. At the very least, their recent Star Trek sruff has brought our their inner ideals.

With that said Rich is the one most like to what you're talking about and it even made its way into his top 5 TNG episodes in places.

As for Nostalgia Critic? He seemed to be even more positive in places contrasting movies with better ones, but I haven't watched him in yeeeears. Maybe he's changed.

[Link8909]

I agree with you to a degree, but I do think the maker of Rick and Morty are aware of that since with the exception of the first season ever season finale isn't a happy ending for Rick.

I definitely agree with that, despite the randomness their clearly is a long term plan for Rick's character, and I do hope that he starts to show some change after the events of season four.

Bare in mind this is my own personal feeling, I do see the appeal of the series and I think the creators are very smart and talented people, but after the season three opener and why Rick did what he did at the end of season two, coupled with the overly cynical worldview of the characters and the unlikeableness of said characters, it's not for me.

and Red Letter Media, they promote and glorify cynicism, that being cynical or hate-filled or just negativity equals intelligent and honesty, and thus they're saying to the audience that these actions are perfectly fine and reasonable,

I haven't seen that in RLM. They'll be positive about a movie/tape if it has is has something to. At the very least, their recent Star Trek sruff has brought our their inner ideals.

With that said Rich is the one most like to what you're talking about and it even made its way into his top 5 TNG episodes in places.

As for Nostalgia Critic? He seemed to be even more positive in places contrasting movies with better ones, but I haven't watched him in yeeeears. Maybe he's changed.

Admittedly when I think of Red Letter Media, it is mostly the Plinkett reviews I refer to, however when I've seen them out of character they seem like the saltiest people.

But really the issue isn't so much about the people or series I mentioned, while I can agree and disagree about their views and opinions and how they express them, they are just as entitled to their opinions as I am, the real issue I have is when other people blindly quote them or follow their world view without full understanding it; Rick is a terrible person and that is by design, but impressionable people blindly follow his nihilistic views because they think cynicism equals intelligence, or blindly quote him which lead to essentially killing the humor (again, remember the infamous McDonald's incident); and it's like that with those reviewers, once Nostalgia Critic came alone the only way people knew how to analyse films or TV series was with angry rants, cynicism, plot-holes, and ridiculing the people who made or worked on those productions, same with the Plinkett reviews, when in reality there is so much more to discussing how a film or series works, but when they showed up we were saturated with copy-cats trying to emulate their popularity.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

The problem with having a lot of characters who are horrible people and geniuses is that men begin to think that just because they are horrible, they must be a genius.

Rick and Morty is a show with a lot of good work put into it, but if you meet a guy who says it's his favorite show? Run in the opposite direction, climbing fences and knocking over fruit carts to slow down pursuers.

[Beastro]

If you haven't, I'd recommend taking a peek at RLMs Best of the Worst and other stuff dealing with old bad movies.

In them you pick up more of their love (and knowledge) of the craft of movie-making and how, while they might love to rip into old ones, will appreciate what they're trying to pull off even if they're doing bad.

It helps too that they set their own movies they've made as something of a baseline for terrible and only really pour scorn on those worse than them.

Anyway, in those everyones pretty easy going and insightful without trying to be edgy.

[Thebestoftherest]

and Red Letter Media, they promote and glorify cynicism, that being cynical or hate-filled or just negativity equals intelligent and honesty, and thus they're saying to the audience that these actions are perfectly fine and reasonable,

I haven't seen that in RLM. They'll be positive about a movie/tape if it has is has something to. At the very least, their recent Star Trek sruff has brought our their inner ideals.

With that said Rich is the one most like to what you're talking about and it even made its way into his top 5 TNG episodes in places.

As for Nostalgia Critic? He seemed to be even more positive in places contrasting movies with better ones, but I haven't watched him in yeeeears. Maybe he's changed.

He got worst after he return. I gave up on him and Snob after change the channel, but it not like before then he was a this a game.

[CMDR_Bob]

Rick and Morty is basically Bojack Horseman for pseudo-intellectuals, except funnier. The issue is that both have a bad habit of trying to juxtaposition jokes with drama. An example is in "The ABC's of Beth", where a life-and-death situation for a father falsely accused of murdering his own son is constantly interrupted by crude jokes about said son's incestuous dynasty in a pocket dimension Rick made for Beth when she was a child. The B story sees Jerry dating an alien whose entire race is basically Klingon's except "we hunt for the sake of everything! Even to celebrate a hunt!" There's a moment where Morty and Summer confront Jerry multiple times about his choice in rebounds. Again, the joke is that the alien lady is constantly forcing Jerry and his kids along for a hunt, yet it's obvious that there is drama that needs resolving.

There's also the episode "Pickle Rick" where a trip to the family therapist (which is in itself a really difficult topic to make jokes about) is met with Rick turning himself into a pickle in an attempt to evade the appointment. Rather than take him along, the family leaves Rick to his own devices and shenanigans occur. I mean, there wasn't even a half-assed attempt at forcing Rick to confront his own reservations with talking about his feelings. I know it's meant to be a "haha, look, therapy is a joke," moment, but what the Hell?

Nostalgia Critic was never good. He just happened to piggyback AVGN's core premise (angry, foul-mouthed "reviewer") and pooped out a few indie films. Personally, not a fan of CA's indie stuff and I find it a bit ironic that a man who prides himself on being the voice of what disqualifies a film as "good" has yet to write a good joke or direct a decent cutaway. The man rags on Adam Sandler, too, which is hilarious when you compare the two. One is a 50-some actor/director whose content is often hit and miss (more misses than hits), involves his friends in his projects, has helped launch several careers alongside his own, and simply does what he does because he loves it. The other is Doug Walker.

[Thebestoftherest]

Rick and Morty is basically Bojack Horseman for pseudo-intellectuals, except funnier. The issue is that both have a bad habit of trying to juxtaposition jokes with drama. An example is in "The ABC's of Beth", where a life-and-death situation for a father falsely accused of murdering his own son is constantly interrupted by crude jokes about said son's incestuous dynasty in a pocket dimension Rick made for Beth when she was a child. The B story sees Jerry dating an alien whose entire race is basically Klingon's except "we hunt for the sake of everything! Even to celebrate a hunt!" There's a moment where Morty and Summer confront Jerry multiple times about his choice in rebounds. Again, the joke is that the alien lady is constantly forcing Jerry and his kids along for a hunt, yet it's obvious that there is drama that needs resolving.

There's also the episode "Pickle Rick" where a trip to the family therapist (which is in itself a really difficult topic to make jokes about) is met with Rick turning himself into a pickle in an attempt to evade the appointment. Rather than take him along, the family leaves Rick to his own devices and shenanigans occur. I mean, there wasn't even a half-assed attempt at forcing Rick to confront his own reservations with talking about his feelings. I know it's meant to be a "haha, look, therapy is a joke," moment, but what the Hell?

Nostalgia Critic was never good. He just happened to piggyback AVGN's core premise (angry, foul-mouthed "reviewer") and pooped out a few indie films. Personally, not a fan of CA's indie stuff and I find it a bit ironic that a man who prides himself on being the voice of what disqualifies a film as "good" has yet to write a good joke or direct a decent cutaway. The man rags on Adam Sandler, too, which is hilarious when you compare the two. One is a 50-some actor/director whose content is often hit and miss (more misses than hits), involves his friends in his projects, has helped launch several careers alongside his own, and simply does what he does because he loves it. The other is Doug Walker.

The change the channel document reveal that Doug was notorious for forcing the actor to play their characters like the NC as opposed to how they really behave, rewriting the script on the fly, failing at basic human decency, and basically giving up mid way unless someone else take his share of the work.

[Link8909]

Rick and Morty is basically Bojack Horseman for pseudo-intellectuals, except funnier. The issue is that both have a bad habit of trying to juxtaposition jokes with drama. An example is in "The ABC's of Beth", where a life-and-death situation for a father falsely accused of murdering his own son is constantly interrupted by crude jokes about said son's incestuous dynasty in a pocket dimension Rick made for Beth when she was a child. The B story sees Jerry dating an alien whose entire race is basically Klingon's except "we hunt for the sake of everything! Even to celebrate a hunt!" There's a moment where Morty and Summer confront Jerry multiple times about his choice in rebounds. Again, the joke is that the alien lady is constantly forcing Jerry and his kids along for a hunt, yet it's obvious that there is drama that needs resolving.

There's also the episode "Pickle Rick" where a trip to the family therapist (which is in itself a really difficult topic to make jokes about) is met with Rick turning himself into a pickle in an attempt to evade the appointment. Rather than take him along, the family leaves Rick to his own devices and shenanigans occur. I mean, there wasn't even a half-assed attempt at forcing Rick to confront his own reservations with talking about his feelings. I know it's meant to be a "haha, look, therapy is a joke," moment, but what the Hell?

Yeah, I didn't care for "Pickle Rick", and not just the episode, but the entire meme itself was overplayed and became obnoxious even before the episode aired.

Honestly it was the start of season three that I lost interest with the series, the fact that Rick allowed himself to be captured so he could bring down the Galactic Federation wasn't a selfless act that could have been much needed character growth, but all so he could take revenge on both the Galactic Federation and Jerry for crossing him at the end of season two, and be seen as a hero by Beth and have control over Morty and the rest of the family, is just another reason why Rick is a terrible person, and rather than having that backstory be real that would have humanized him, it was all for another overplayed and obnoxious meme.

[Linkara]

There's also the episode "Pickle Rick" where a trip to the family therapist (which is in itself a really difficult topic to make jokes about) is met with Rick turning himself into a pickle in an attempt to evade the appointment. Rather than take him along, the family leaves Rick to his own devices and shenanigans occur. I mean, there wasn't even a half-assed attempt at forcing Rick to confront his own reservations with talking about his feelings. I know it's meant to be a "haha, look, therapy is a joke," moment, but what the Hell?

That is NOT the message of Pickle Rick at all. There's a reason why the therapist is completely unflappable - because she sees through Rick's bullshit. He makes his standard shpiel to try to undermine her and her profession... and then she just turns it around on him on why he didn't want to come and he has no answer for that, just him and Beth trying to pretend like she wasn't right while ignoring Morty and Summer.

Personally, I think the writers felt, especially by season 3, that they had created a bit of a monster - that these characters ARE unlikeable and they needed to do some turn-around or at least acknowledge their toxic traits and either correct them to a degree... or go the Archer route. In Archer, all the characters are also horrible... but the writers know that, so while development does occur, more often than not their horribleness ends up screwing them over - they have negative consequences for their actions while still being funny about it.

And thus the same for Rick and Morty - making genuine effort to really put forth "No, no - Rick is not someone to emulate. He is not the true hero of this story and his nihilism is bullshit." I see that especially in seasons 3 and 4, with 3 being stronger than 4 but 4 still being fun.

[RobbyB1982]

The big problem with Rick and Morty is the subtext is that Rick is actually wrong and that his toxic behavior is bad and only hurts him and there's a lesson to be learned... the problem is the TEXT is "Rick is awesome and always wins and always the smartest guy in the room." and that's what we get most of the time.

The text is way, way louder than the subtext, so that the message of "being a toxic asshole is bad" gets lost while "being a snarky asshole makes you cool" is the easiest part to grab.

(And its very, very clear its the second message that has grabbed a specific demographic.)

Every fifth episode they 'll have a "sad" ending where Rick goes "gee, messing with that guy's toilet backfired and I'm actually miserable now" or "I faked being in love with a massive space entity and I actually didn't mean it... oh wait I'm suicidal without her" or "See, he really does love Morty despite pretending he doesn't!" and play some sad music to it to try and make a moment out of it, but nothing ever comes from it and then h's just awful again the next episode. And they keep playing that exact trick over and over, Pickle Rick being kind of the epitome of it. It meant something the first few times they did it, less so later.

The ideas and creativity are great, I applaud that they basically insist on never repeating a premise, but the show kind of said everything it actually had to say in the first season and most of the episodes since then have just been recycling the exact same beats. (Harmon's story wheel structure gets especially sticky once you're aware of it because every single episode follows it to the minute.)

I don't know how they make the show work for another 6 seasons they're already signed up for.


Someone else mentioned South Park and its similar, though there the message they end up with is "everything is shit, always be a snarky outsider" and they almost never take a firm stand on anything outside of maybe "censorship is dumb." and that the creators haven't grown or changed in 20 years is... something.