Sfdebris.net

MerelyAFan wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:07 pm https://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/t196.php

I am a bit amused that Lwaxana as a guest character arguably actually got an enjoyable episode focused on her depths before Deanna (a main cast member) did.

Really nice review, and I'm sorry for your loss Chuck, and my condolences to others who have lost love ones before or during these troubling times, I lost my Grandad around ten years ago, and my Nanny about two year ago.

I am sorry for the loss of your grandmother Chuck.
As I work in Public Policy I have to frequently remind people that while Covid is specifically the cause of many deaths, there are many-MANY deaths that are happening all over the country as a result of Covid consuming resources and damaging social structures. Doctors are tired and making more mistakes, people are afraid to go to the hospital (both because they know they could get it there and because so many have lost their insurance), and the suicides... good lord.

The Episode:

You know, I can't help but think of how Kirk would have handled a society in which people are compelled to commit suicide for no reason ("A Taste of Armageddon")? Or people dying just because they hit a certain age (like in "Miri")?

It is almost like the premise of this episode is something that the old series would have gone out of their way to stop.

Condolences, Chuck, for the loss of your grandmother.

Ah, the episode that was not about euthanasia but Boomers about to crash into the old retirement. They threw a generational tantrum about reaching the age which would have them leave the workforce to make room for the up and coming Gen-X in the managerial and non-entry roles. The same exodus which they leveraged the pre-war and silents out of the workforce to garner their own wealth. Nah, the boomers were not gonna retire and let younger people run the show and gain wealth of their own.

And I think history has proved that mandatory retirement ages were fucking good damn thing, retire already. Gen-X has spent a lifetime trapped in entry level roles and has fuck all generational wealth because of the selfishness of the boomers. Now they are doing the same thing with the millennials, only the millennials will potentially have the working life and youth to recover after the boomers all do die off, Gen-X will never have that. We got stomped on the face by the boomers, and are now getting our ass stepped on by the millennials. So every boomer should be mandatorily retired on Monday. The world isn't going to end, the sun will not blow up, and screw the boomers for trying to put their midlife crisis on that level with this horrible episode.

It just hits some of my buttons, that is all.

One, more comedic thing, hope that star they accidentally blew up wasn't about...oh...thirty light years away from Romulan space. Well that is what we in the science business call a whoopsie?

CrypticMirror wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:16 pm Condolences, Chuck, for the loss of your grandmother.

Ah, the episode that was not about euthanasia but Boomers about to crash into the old retirement. They threw a generational tantrum about reaching the age which would have them leave the workforce to make room for the up and coming Gen-X in the managerial and non-entry roles. The same exodus which they leveraged the pre-war and silents out of the workforce to garner their own wealth. Nah, the boomers were not gonna retire and let younger people run the show and gain wealth of their own.

And I think history has proved that mandatory retirement ages were fucking good damn thing, retire already. Gen-X has spent a lifetime trapped in entry level roles and has fuck all generational wealth because of the selfishness of the boomers. Now they are doing the same thing with the millennials, only the millennials will potentially have the working life and youth to recover after the boomers all do die off, Gen-X will never have that. We got stomped on the face by the boomers, and are now getting our ass stepped on by the millennials. So every boomer should be mandatorily retired on Monday. The world isn't going to end, the sun will not blow up, and screw the boomers for trying to put their midlife crisis on that level with this horrible episode.

It just hits some of my buttons, that is all.

One, more comedic thing, hope that star they accidentally blew up wasn't about...oh...thirty light years away from Romulan space. Well that is what we in the science business call a whoopsie?

Sounds great until you yourself are forced to retire because a youngster wants your job. Got 20 years left in you? Got kids to support? Social security/pension isn't enough to pay your mortgage? Tough shit, fuck off Granny. All of these ''great'' ideas about how to free up the labour market for the next generation sounds great until you yourself reach that point. And don't make out that you will be happy to stand aside when its your turn because I do not believe you.

clearspira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:03 pm

CrypticMirror wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:16 pm Condolences, Chuck, for the loss of your grandmother.

Ah, the episode that was not about euthanasia but Boomers about to crash into the old retirement. They threw a generational tantrum about reaching the age which would have them leave the workforce to make room for the up and coming Gen-X in the managerial and non-entry roles. The same exodus which they leveraged the pre-war and silents out of the workforce to garner their own wealth. Nah, the boomers were not gonna retire and let younger people run the show and gain wealth of their own.

And I think history has proved that mandatory retirement ages were fucking good damn thing, retire already. Gen-X has spent a lifetime trapped in entry level roles and has fuck all generational wealth because of the selfishness of the boomers. Now they are doing the same thing with the millennials, only the millennials will potentially have the working life and youth to recover after the boomers all do die off, Gen-X will never have that. We got stomped on the face by the boomers, and are now getting our ass stepped on by the millennials. So every boomer should be mandatorily retired on Monday. The world isn't going to end, the sun will not blow up, and screw the boomers for trying to put their midlife crisis on that level with this horrible episode.

It just hits some of my buttons, that is all.

One, more comedic thing, hope that star they accidentally blew up wasn't about...oh...thirty light years away from Romulan space. Well that is what we in the science business call a whoopsie?

Sounds great until you yourself are forced to retire because a youngster wants your job. Got 20 years left in you? Got kids to support? Social security/pension isn't enough to pay your mortgage? Tough shit, fuck off Granny. All of these ''great'' ideas about how to free up the labour market for the next generation sounds great until you yourself reach that point. And don't make out that you will be happy to stand aside when its your turn because I do not believe you.

That is the position the boomers have left Gen-X in, thank you very much and fuck you.

Rocketboy1313 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:29 pm You know, I can't help but think of how Kirk would have handled a society in which people are compelled to commit suicide for no reason ("A Taste of Armageddon")? Or people dying just because they hit a certain age (like in "Miri")?

It is almost like the premise of this episode is something that the old series would have gone out of their way to stop.

Hey you're being a bit selective there, you are forgetting the Mark of Gideon, where Gideon was overpopulated so they capture Kirk so he can give them a supply of virus to give to volunteers to kill people and make room. It ends with Kirk letting his love interest of the week return to the planet to be a supplier of viral death.

AllanO wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:11 pm

Rocketboy1313 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:29 pm You know, I can't help but think of how Kirk would have handled a society in which people are compelled to commit suicide for no reason ("A Taste of Armageddon")? Or people dying just because they hit a certain age (like in "Miri")?

It is almost like the premise of this episode is something that the old series would have gone out of their way to stop.

Hey you're being a bit selective there, you are forgetting the Mark of Gideon, where Gideon was overpopulated so they capture Kirk so he can give them a supply of virus to give to volunteers to kill people and make room. It ends with Kirk letting his love interest of the week return to the planet to be a supplier of viral death.

I had not seen that one in a while so I looked it up on Wikipedia.
In that instance there were a couple elements I would point to as being different.
1) In that instance the overpopulation problem is (for the purpose of the story) the real problem, they are essentially infected with a long life in a crowded miserable world.
2) Ignoring the whole, "Just colonize other planets you dopes" issue, they seem to be in the same situation that the Krogans were in Mass Effect except the genophage solution is something they are doing to themselves.

This isn't a matter of "Mass suicide because it is tradition" or a Logan's Run style, "It is your time to die" issue. I can imagine Kirk thinking the "Half a Life" society being unworthy of the protections of the Prime Directive as he has in many situations.

Rocketboy1313 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:27 pm This isn't a matter of "Mass suicide because it is tradition" or a Logan's Run style, "It is your time to die" issue. I can imagine Kirk thinking the "Half a Life" society being unworthy of the protections of the Prime Directive as he has in many situations.

Assuming they actually get the billions of volunteers required for their plan to work I imagine there is going to be some arbitrary traditions built up around who volunteers to get the virus and so who dies (or at least dies a lot sooner then they would without it). The people in Mark of Gideon had their reasons and so did the people in Half a Life, both sets of reasons seem about as unconvincing, stupid, unworkable and immoral to me. So I am not seeing the difference.

My point is more I can see Kirk not thinking the Gideons deserved the protection of the Prime Directive one week and then thinking they do the next, I don't think he was as consistently characterized as you do apparently (not necessarily Janeway levels of inconsistency, but his attitudes were shaped to the needs of the plot).

AllanO wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:03 am My point is more I can see Kirk not thinking the Gideons deserved the protection of the Prime Directive one week and then thinking they do the next, I don't think he was as consistently characterized as you do apparently (not necessarily Janeway levels of inconsistency, but his attitudes were shaped to the needs of the plot).

Fair on the characterization being inconsistent (I would point to "The City on the Edge of Forever" having an obvious "good ending" that they didn't take that I think would have fit Kirk's characterization better, that is just take the woman fated to die with them back to the future), but I think that Kirk tends to come down more on the side of action to stop something toxic rather than sitting by.

I can picture him having the same reaction to this situation as Picard, but at the same time I can picture him blasting a message to the whole planet explaining the situation. Essentially justifying it with, "They are warp capable, I am not actually doing anything, just arguing a standpoint".

"Your sun is in danger, and when a man who is working toward fixing it sees a path before him you all would cling to a tradition of pointless death rather than let him finish his work. How is an aged man of your culture more a burden than the loss of great minds, the loss of loved ones?"