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Re: Star treks vs gods
Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:15 am
by Nealithi
It has been. But each time they did something with them.
Trelane was the boy playing with the insects.
Apollo the old power trying to hang on to what it once had and was.
The Traveller was the aloof superior being.
Uxbridge the being you can't counter full of grief.
Even the organians came off as parents setting boundaries on the children.
The Prophets initially came off as what TV Tropes calls Blue and Orange morality. They simply perceive things so differently. There are things we mortals can do but they can't and they can do that amaze us.
Oddly you have me thinking on how I would introduce Egyptian gods to Trek. They are a fairly old 'federation' of their own. They found several fledgling worlds like Earth and some wanted to educate them and others felt they should not interfere. They battled one another and eventually took their fight from the cradle worlds lest they destroy the young races. The whole conflict they had is basically the debate over the prime directive. They wiped themselves out never resolving the issue. And what the Trek crew fights are their remnant soldiers. Still guarding their last fortress worlds eons after their masters have fallen to dust.
Re: Star treks vs gods
Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:48 am
by Thebestoftherest
Hmm, interesting.
Re: Star treks vs gods
Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:10 pm
by King Green
What about the "advance aliens pretending to be gods" view? Sure Kirk and co. punched those suckers into oblivion but those were lucky guesses and it will wear down the audience since they want Starfleet to embrace the "struggle of victory" and learn not the enemy, but war amongst themselves.
Marvel universe would rape Trek universe due to its multitude of Elder Gods, Sentinals, Mutants, and terrifyingly Narrators. Q is a low-mid level alien-wannabe-god, he can fabricate anything he wishes but not create anything he doesn't want.
Re: Star treks vs gods
Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:10 pm
by Nealithi
King Green wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:10 pm
What about the "advance aliens pretending to be gods" view? Sure Kirk and co. punched those suckers into oblivion but those were lucky guesses and it will wear down the audience since they want Starfleet to embrace the "struggle of victory" and learn not the enemy, but war amongst themselves.
Marvel universe would rape Trek universe due to its multitude of Elder Gods, Sentinals, Mutants, and terrifyingly Narrators. Q is a low-mid level alien-wannabe-god, he can fabricate anything he wishes but not create anything he doesn't want.
The moment you do advanced aliens as gods with Asgard and Egyptians it becomes a blatant ripoff of Stargate. Hence it likely won't be done.
Re: Star treks vs gods
Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:15 pm
by Thebestoftherest
Nealithi wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:10 pm
King Green wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:10 pm
What about the "advance aliens pretending to be gods" view? Sure Kirk and co. punched those suckers into oblivion but those were lucky guesses and it will wear down the audience since they want Starfleet to embrace the "struggle of victory" and learn not the enemy, but war amongst themselves.
Marvel universe would rape Trek universe due to its multitude of Elder Gods, Sentinals, Mutants, and terrifyingly Narrators. Q is a low-mid level alien-wannabe-god, he can fabricate anything he wishes but not create anything he doesn't want.
The moment you do advanced aliens as gods with Asgard and Egyptians it becomes a blatant ripoff of Stargate. Hence it likely won't be done.
What about hawaii or Chinese gods?
Re: Star treks vs gods
Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:04 pm
by Fuzzy Necromancer
Thebestoftherest wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:25 pm
Rocketboy1313 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:09 pm
We are currently living in the post "Game of Thrones" era of genre TV, so the emphasis is going to be on political and social conflict, playing with expectations in regard to genre tropes, and completely blowing the ending. A more episodic approach will come back in a decade or two and Trek will be there.
That being said, let's talk about the trope.
The idea of "Science kills the God(s)" is not a theme limited to Star Trek.
"Ghostbusters" has the climax of the film with a voice in the clouds yelling at the heroes about what apocalypse they want to suffer, and the BEAT BACK THE APOCALYPSE...
Wait, I am sorry, I was thinking of "Pacific Rim" where they CANCEL THE APOCALYPSE!
"Godzilla: King of the Monsters" explicitly calls the monsters Titans (and they very much take the stance that they are metaphors for natural forces/disasters/sciences that humans as a species are a part of).
"Babylon V" is all about getting rid of the demonic "what do you want" Shadows and angelic "who are you" Vorlons so that humanity and the other races can reach their potential free of their shitty parents.
Should Star Trek fight gods? Maybe, but I don't think you would get any more story impact than you would with Q or the Organians or the Crystalline Entity. And when you are writing it is important to identify what the thing you are writing about stands in for.
When you fight Apollo are you saying that the god of light and learning is still too confining for humanity and we must stop anthropomorphizing rationalism to keep moving forward? Or is Apollo just the name they drew from a hat and he is a stand in for YAHWEH? How does the story's message change if Apollo is replaced with Dionysus (hedonism) or Hera (traditional gender roles)?
I just want people on star ship to fight people in viking or egyptian cosplay with lightning.
That's what holodeck episodes are for
Re: Star treks vs gods
Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:43 pm
by Thebestoftherest
But that less fun.
Re: Star treks vs gods
Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:55 am
by Nealithi
Thebestoftherest wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:15 pm
Nealithi wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:10 pm
King Green wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:10 pm
What about the "advance aliens pretending to be gods" view? Sure Kirk and co. punched those suckers into oblivion but those were lucky guesses and it will wear down the audience since they want Starfleet to embrace the "struggle of victory" and learn not the enemy, but war amongst themselves.
Marvel universe would rape Trek universe due to its multitude of Elder Gods, Sentinals, Mutants, and terrifyingly Narrators. Q is a low-mid level alien-wannabe-god, he can fabricate anything he wishes but not create anything he doesn't want.
The moment you do advanced aliens as gods with Asgard and Egyptians it becomes a blatant ripoff of Stargate. Hence it likely won't be done.
What about hawaii or Chinese gods?
Noting how important the Chinese market is to Hollywood these days? I would hazard making their gods villains would not go over well and would be shied away from.
Sadly beyond what was shown in Moana I know nothing about Hawaiian/Islander gods.
Re: Star treks vs gods
Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:29 am
by Rocketboy1313
Nealithi wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:55 am
Noting how important the Chinese market is to Hollywood these days? I would hazard making their gods villains would not go over well and would be shied away from.
Sadly beyond what was shown in Moana I know nothing about Hawaiian/Islander gods.
From what I have come to understand the Chinese film industry has a massive genre fiction market that is goofy, weird, and imaginative... The idea of space navy discovering the moon goddess would not be that nuts.
Re: Star treks vs gods
Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 2:23 am
by King Green
There is a butchered saying: Men who speaks of this, that will come fourth.
We humans have an irresistible habit of creating stories and folklore, that its practically legit magic when we choose to believe that story to be true. Stories on gods and heroes are a result of people infusing accurate outcomes that help our species sane, or what could be define as "sane"?
Thinking and belief are opposite twins critical to create/destroy things.