SG1: 2010

[Captain Crimson]

Faxon comes off more as a well-meaning tool than a villain as the ''we need to depopulate the Earth to save humanity!'' excuse makes no sense when you consider ''Stargate''. Just settle somewhere else.

True, but he was still willing to die for her. Even a political tool like him can do the right thing, and TBH, Carter is the kinda girl where you'd have no problem dying for her.

Though let's be honest, in some respects, despite the great story, SG never really capitalized on all the opportunities the lore afforded that way very well.

Sticking your man tool in Carter is like entering into a deal with Satan. No doubt its great whilst it lasts but eventually you are going to die horribly. It might have been better off for everyone if she gave lesbianism a try

But man, what a ride. Worth it!

[Linkara]

There WAS actually a plan for a third episode of the trilogy where, indeed, it turns out the Aschen did dial the black hole and got screwed over for it and they were coming to earth for revenge, but it never got made.

As for this episode, I love it. I love unconventional villain plots and villains who are basically colonizers who slowly genocide the human race while seemingly offering wonders and greatness is great.

I'm also fond of the reference with the title - them planning on turning Jupiter into a star like in the Clarke novel.

[Fianna]

To me, as someone with no desire to have kids, defeating the Go'auld in exchange for mass sterilization ... that seems like a good trade.

Sure, we know that humanity ends up beating the Go'auld without the Aschen's help, but at this point in the series that was very much an extreme longshot. And with the advanced technology the Aschen offer, presumably we'd be able to automate our labor force, so the lack of new people being born to replace workers who die or retire: not an issue.

Like, I get that that having children and "perpetuating the species" are important to a lot of people, and I certainly wouldn't want someone to launch a mass sterilization campaign in secret, without humanity's consent, but I personally don't see much of a downside.

Of course, 2001 would change this by showing that the Aschen's plan wasn't to cause humanity's extinction, but to reduce us to a low-tech, sparsely populated slave race. That's a much worse scenario.

[chaos42]

the thing i keep thinking about is the reason they are doing this, it can't be food production because even a small interstellar empire doesn't need multiple planets farming all the land, i suspect that most of that stuffs being used for some sort of ethanol or other bio fuel, plus the overpopulation thing is a lie, the real issue is not supply but transport, getting the food to people the planet has more than enough space and resources, the issue is supplying people before the food goes bad, and if you matter transporters then i think your good. The issue i have with these aliens is that they feel like their from the planet of boring stiffs, personally if i was oneal i would have zatted that guy just for talking to me.

[Captain Crimson]

There WAS actually a plan for a third episode of the trilogy where, indeed, it turns out the Aschen did dial the black hole and got screwed over for it and they were coming to earth for revenge, but it never got made.

If that had come to pass during the Anubis era, it would have been amazing to see the Tau'ri take 'em on, either with the 303 or the later 304s.

As for this episode, I love it. I love unconventional villain plots and villains who are basically colonizers who slowly genocide the human race while seemingly offering wonders and greatness is great.

Yes, a very classical pedigree, plus the follow-up added an important detail not discussed in this episode - that the Aschen were confined to a small region of the galaxy without the DHD to power their Gate. That's what the SGC was gonna trade them: Gate coordinates. Makes total sense to me.

To me, as someone with no desire to have kids, defeating the Go'auld in exchange for mass sterilization ... that seems like a good trade.

What I hear is, "I can have all the unprotected sex I want, anywhere, anytime!"

I mean, H, you can answer the same "depopulation by immigration" plot hole by raising that plot hole with another - why didn't the Aschen use the new Gate addresses in order to set up rich new farmland on vast stretches of uninhabited or sparsely populated worlds?

[Ghilz]

There WAS actually a plan for a third episode of the trilogy where, indeed, it turns out the Aschen did dial the black hole and got screwed over for it and they were coming to earth for revenge, but it never got made.

As for this episode, I love it. I love unconventional villain plots and villains who are basically colonizers who slowly genocide the human race while seemingly offering wonders and greatness is great.

I'm also fond of the reference with the title - them planning on turning Jupiter into a star like in the Clarke novel.

Prolly best that episode never got made. It's one of the more iffy bit in 2001 that SG1 sort of wipes out an entire planet over what could just be the action of their leaders (Especially considering how the show itself points out that doing similar to Jaffas would be awful and not worth considering). It's probably best to not dwell on the consequence and just leave it at "Ah, our heroes left a boobey trap for the villains don't think too much about it"

[Mabus]

I really liked this episode as well as 2001, the villain is boring (planet of lawyers as O'Neil calls them later on) but that's the genius of it: They defeated us without firing a single shot. No fancy superweapon, no disco ball of doom. Just plain old backstabbing.

I won't be surprised if the they did the same thing with the Goa'uld: basically, given how advanced their medicine is, they could have "cured" every single Jaffa out there, removing their ability to need a symbiote (at least that's the impression I got with how Teal'c was shown), and given that they have advanced biological weapons, it won't have been hard to gas thousands of Jaffa planets with medicine. Hell, maybe they even improved on Ma'chello's Goa'uld killing slugs, that way any Goa'uld was simply wiped out with a touch, and given how little it takes to collapse their empire once the big boss is gone, this won't have been an issue.

As for Anubis, I don't think he was defeated, at best he's probably dumped in some frozen hellhole or in a black hole: the only reason he was able to make his grand return is because he wiped out the Tollan and upgraded the shields to no-sell old Asgard weaponry, which was enough to gather sufficient support that the System Lords reaccepted him. He also had access to various old scavenged technology, but without a massive power base, namely the System Lords and the Jaffa, there is little he can do to be more than just a mass murdering terrorist surrounded by crazed brainwashed servents, and given how much of a hit and miss their brainwashing tech is, it won't be perfect. Hell, Anubis only made the Kull warriors after he probed into Jonas' mind and learned of Egeria's symbiotes (and probably some Star Wars Jonas watched), and even then he still needed a Thot to help him.

I do find it eerie how in the Aschen timeline, gen. Hammond was dead by 2010, and in real life Don S. Davis passed away in 2008.

[clearspira]

There WAS actually a plan for a third episode of the trilogy where, indeed, it turns out the Aschen did dial the black hole and got screwed over for it and they were coming to earth for revenge, but it never got made.

As for this episode, I love it. I love unconventional villain plots and villains who are basically colonizers who slowly genocide the human race while seemingly offering wonders and greatness is great.

I'm also fond of the reference with the title - them planning on turning Jupiter into a star like in the Clarke novel.

Prolly best that episode never got made. It's one of the more iffy bit in 2001 that SG1 sort of wipes out an entire planet over what could just be the action of their leaders (Especially considering how the show itself points out that doing similar to Jaffas would be awful and not worth considering). It's probably best to not dwell on the consequence and just leave it at "Ah, our heroes left a boobey trap for the villains don't think too much about it"

Personally I don't believe it caused the Aschen much trouble at all. Stargate Command worked out how to get rid of a connection to a Black Hole using a nuke; the Aschen were easily fifty years ahead of us at the time. No reason to believe they couldn't work it out as well. Which is why the SGC chose the black hole planet in the first place. Its an epic fuck you that at the same time was easily reversible. I'm glad they didn't make the third episode either, it doesn't make sense.

And another thing. Why are we assuming that the black hole planet was the first address the Aschen dialled? There were ten addresses. Maybe after the first five turned out to be bogus they would put two and two together and go ''y'know, maybe the people we tried to kill tricked us.''

The only question that needs to be asked is why this Goa'uld busting race was never heard from again. Well that's easy: no DHD and apparently no hyperdrive. They are stuck in their local group doing nothing, hoping for someone else to stumble across them. Besides, the Aschen are not dumb. They were completely outclassed after season 5.

[Ghilz]

There WAS actually a plan for a third episode of the trilogy where, indeed, it turns out the Aschen did dial the black hole and got screwed over for it and they were coming to earth for revenge, but it never got made.

As for this episode, I love it. I love unconventional villain plots and villains who are basically colonizers who slowly genocide the human race while seemingly offering wonders and greatness is great.

I'm also fond of the reference with the title - them planning on turning Jupiter into a star like in the Clarke novel.

Prolly best that episode never got made. It's one of the more iffy bit in 2001 that SG1 sort of wipes out an entire planet over what could just be the action of their leaders (Especially considering how the show itself points out that doing similar to Jaffas would be awful and not worth considering). It's probably best to not dwell on the consequence and just leave it at "Ah, our heroes left a boobey trap for the villains don't think too much about it"

Personally I don't believe it caused the Aschen much trouble at all. Stargate Command worked out how to get rid of a connection to a Black Hole using a nuke; the Aschen were easily fifty years ahead of us at the time. No reason to believe they couldn't work it out as well. Which is why the SGC chose the black hole planet in the first place. Its an epic fuck you that at the same time was easily reversible. I'm glad they didn't make the third episode either, it doesn't make sense.

And another thing. Why are we assuming that the black hole planet was the first address the Aschen dialled? There were ten addresses. Maybe after the first five turned out to be bogus they would put two and two together and go ''y'know, maybe the people we tried to kill tricked us.''

The only question that needs to be asked is why this Goa'uld busting race was never heard from again. Well that's easy: no DHD and apparently no hyperdrive. They are stuck in their local group doing nothing, hoping for someone else to stumble across them. Besides, the Aschen are not dumb. They were completely outclassed after season 5.

At the same time it's kind of a plot point that the Aschens kinda suck at understanding the gate (They got the gates to work but never figured out putting an Iris to protect their gate or figure out stellar drift.) So I'd not guess they'd not figure out the bomb think in time. Heck, SG1 only figured the bomb thing out because of the specific scenario that made them discover the antartica gate. It's not unbelievables the Ashens dont know the gate has a safety measure where it jumps if you throw enough juice into it.

Re: Why assume the black hole is the first thing they dialed. O'Neill literally goes "The first address is a black hole, and they get darker after that." It's not a leap in logic that the Ashens wouldn't start with the middle of the list.


Apparently the third episode was made into a book?

[Captain Crimson]

I don't know, upon thinking about it, Anubis was probably just left without an army to his name and so just retreated to rebuild his forces and return a century later with a new circus of horrors. And it's not like he can be killed, as an Ascended being, and since the key to the Sangraal is found in the Ancient vault of Avalon beneath Glastonbury, it's really hard to imagine he's been permanently put down. Not that it matters, since the timeline was changed anyway.

And I'll defend the idea of a third episode, mourn it even. The Aschen do have ships, if they were probably on par with the Genii at their peak, it's just said they didn't venture far beyond their Confederation. Heck, for all we know, they could have been the ship that just inexplicably appears and fires on the Prometheus in Grace. And, really, imagine if this were late SG-1, like they had tried to take on the Tau'ri prior to the Ori, failed, and so during the Battle of P3Y-229, Aschen war vessels were present as well? And maybe a host of minor factions and races as well, such as the Serrakin and Reetou - heck, even bring in Aris Boch's Boba Fett wannabe bounty hunter Tel'tak? And the Omeyocans! I mean, SG never followed up on them again, so why not. The more, the merrier! So they can fail that much harder.

Here, speaking of the Ori, non sequitur, sure, but going off the cuff, do you think an Ori Prior could have survived a mass of those Xenomorph bugs from Bane?