VOY - Night

[Riedquat]

the Doctor, who, as competent as he is, is only one person

There's no good reason the computer couldn't generate multiple doctors if the situation required it other than the general nonsense of the Voyager writers.

It's surprising that no one ever considered programming a holographic nurse to assist the Doctor. For that matter, it's awfully coincidental that all the actual nurses assigned to assist the original ship's surgeon were apparently killed when he was. It's also a bit odd that the Val Jean didn't at least have someone trained as a field medic.

If holograms like the Doctor are simply holodeck-like projections of software running on the Voyager computers, and they've got enough spare processing power (which they should for basic tasks since they've got a holodeck...) That's certainly how they're usually portrayed, but then with loads of contradictory evidence that is never explained.

I came up with the idea that a sophisiticated hologram might not quite work that way. If the same technology was used to simulate a clock (consider a purely mechanical one for ease of the example, although it works with any) then the projection might be of the wheels and springs and pendulum and escapement, subjected to the normal forces of nature. There's nothing specifically simulating "clock", e.g. nothing saying "pendulum swings this far, gear advances once a second" and so on, it's just what you get from all the components. If an intelligent hologram works in a similar manner it might go some way to explain some of the inconsistencies, and difficulty in creating new ones (although not the duplication issues we get where he's sent somewhere else so can't be on Voyager).

[stryke]

Well there goes my one SFDebris headcannon that Night would be the last Voyager episode convered. I thought as it's pretty good and does a solid job of examining Janeway's choices it would work as a good capper to the series.

It's surprising that no one ever considered programming a holographic nurse to assist the Doctor. For that matter, it's awfully coincidental that all the actual nurses assigned to assist the original ship's surgeon were apparently killed when he was. It's also a bit odd that the Val Jean didn't at least have someone trained as a field medic.

To be fair they did try and recreate the Doctor in one episode, and the best that Tom and Harry could do was basically a talking wiki. Thing is none of the crew of Voyager are all that good at making holograms. Torres and Harry Kim can do maintenence, along with implementing work done by others, and Tom Paris is basically the equivalent of someone who makes new Skyrim quest mods. Actually making something new and functional though is clearly shown to be beyond their abilities.

You could argue that a nurse hologram is something that should already exist. Thing is we've seen repeatedly that most of Starfleet were incredibly hostile to the idea of the EMH, including from Beverly Crusher who always was the 'nice' doctor, so it shouldn't be too surprising it's just not been done even if it would be really useful in Voyager's situation.

[Riedquat]

You could argue that a nurse hologram is something that should already exist. Thing is we've seen repeatedly that most of Starfleet were incredibly hostile to the idea of the EMH, including from Beverly Crusher who always was the 'nice' doctor, so it shouldn't be too surprising it's just not been done even if it would be really useful in Voyager's situation.

Voyager didn't really do much with "he's regarded as much a part of the crew as anyone by the end of it."

[McAvoy]

Well there goes my one SFDebris headcannon that Night would be the last Voyager episode convered. I thought as it's pretty good and does a solid job of examining Janeway's choices it would work as a good capper to the series.

It's surprising that no one ever considered programming a holographic nurse to assist the Doctor. For that matter, it's awfully coincidental that all the actual nurses assigned to assist the original ship's surgeon were apparently killed when he was. It's also a bit odd that the Val Jean didn't at least have someone trained as a field medic.

To be fair they did try and recreate the Doctor in one episode, and the best that Tom and Harry could do was basically a talking wiki. Thing is none of the crew of Voyager are all that good at making holograms. Torres and Harry Kim can do maintenence, along with implementing work done by others, and Tom Paris is basically the equivalent of someone who makes new Skyrim quest mods. Actually making something new and functional though is clearly shown to be beyond their abilities.

You could argue that a nurse hologram is something that should already exist. Thing is we've seen repeatedly that most of Starfleet were incredibly hostile to the idea of the EMH, including from Beverly Crusher who always was the 'nice' doctor, so it shouldn't be too surprising it's just not been done even if it would be really useful in Voyager's situation.

Look at it this way too, car mechanics can diagnose problems and fix them. Doesn't mean they can design and build their own from scratch.

I am a aircraft mechanic. No way in hell can I design and build a aircraft on my own that is just as good as Boeing or Cessna. I could most likely make a basic aircraft out of my own knowledge of how to assemble and repair one.

I'd imagine the crew of Voyager Paris included (because he is like the jack of all trades knowledge guy), know how to repair the Doc due to some big manual on how to repair him. But to make one? Nah.

Torres probably had on hand a manual on how to repair the EMH is the most likely answer. She was reading it beforehand and perhaps had of up while at the same time figuring out how to repair the EMH.

Id expect even La Forge would be doing the same thing as well.

[SiskosMuthaFknPmphnd]

The failure of logic always gets me in this episode.

Even if The Malon Captain were too stupid to realize that he could sell the tech Voyager was offering for a shit load of money and live like a king instead of poisoning himself with radiation every fucking day for the rest of his life, there's still the people producing that radiation. Those people would be ecstatic to get that technology. No more having to package up all that radioactive crap and paying people to get rid of it. You can just process it into usable stuff and sell that stuff. Once all the new tech is fully paid for, the rest is pure profit.

I mean, the change wouldn't happen overnight, but it would definitely happen. If we got technology to turn smog into useful shit, we would use it.

And they get to keep the Malon as a threat. The Malon people might love Voyager, but the captains and crews of those ships would hate them for putting them out of a job.

[Makeshift Python]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHvpWHM ... FDebrisRed

Well... to continue our discussion on ''how nonsense the holodeck frequently is'' from ''The Big Goodbye'' we have this episode where a frozen program also means that the flashlights and ray guns work.

And how do you actually make someone black and white?

And why is it that in ''First Contact'' you can materialise holo-clothes over a person and yet here Tom Paris has to put on the Captain Proton clothes before he goes in? (Although I always thought the ''First Contact'' idea was stupid for the reasons outlined excellently in RLM's review of the film).

Simple. The holodeck uses transporter technology, so you can switch out your actual clothes for replicated clothes suited to the program. It wasn't actually shown until "These Are The Voyages", set in 2370. So when Picard and Lily go into the Big Goodbye program, the holodeck swapped their actual clothes for programmed clothes. It honestly makes more sense that the holodeck is capable of doing that, which is why I find it silly that the crew had to switch into clothing outside the holodeck.

Especially since we saw in THE MOTION PICTURE that Kirk was able to materialize robes onto the Ilia probe after initially appearing naked in a sonic shower. If materializing clothing onto someone was feasible in the 2270s, surely that would have been a cinch in the 2370s.

But of course the doofuses in RLM missed that point.

[FaxModem1]

The failure of logic always gets me in this episode.

Even if The Malon Captain were too stupid to realize that he could sell the tech Voyager was offering for a shit load of money and live like a king instead of poisoning himself with radiation every fucking day for the rest of his life, there's still the people producing that radiation. Those people would be ecstatic to get that technology. No more having to package up all that radioactive crap and paying people to get rid of it. You can just process it into usable stuff and sell that stuff. Once all the new tech is fully paid for, the rest is pure profit.

I mean, the change wouldn't happen overnight, but it would definitely happen. If we got technology to turn smog into useful shit, we would use it.

And they get to keep the Malon as a threat. The Malon people might love Voyager, but the captains and crews of those ships would hate them for putting them out of a job.

I would agree with you, aside from the reticent, if not monstrous attitudes company owners, politicans, and economists have with the kind of sweeping tech changes we've had with going from fossil fuels to renewables, whether for cities and/or transportation. I'm not just talking development, which is pretty much where Voyager is footing the bill here, I'm talking deployment of said energy upgrades over their entire civilization. Even if Emck was Mr. Green Energy, he'd have to deal with an economy being used to polluting everywhere and those earning money hand over fist would do what they could to stop it. Emck would face all sorts of troubles. Lobbyists would be pulling every trick they could to make it look awful or stop it in it's tracks.

As a RL anecdotal example, my college town was fracking, and everyday to the election on the decision to ban fracking, we got daily leaflets on how ending fracking would devastate us, with photos of a playground into some sort of abandoned ruin due to lack of funding.

Imagine similar problems for Emck or any Malon environmentalists as they try to push through clean energy. Imagine all the crews of those Malon freighters out of work and being used by conservative pundits on why clean energy is a bad idea. Imagine those out of work crews picketing Emck's company. Imagine all his contracts not being renewed due to him being perceived as risky.

All that said, it's something that would eventually build traction and become popular, but for a business owner like Emck, he'd prefer guaranteed profits over something that might be risky financially.

[TGLS]

The failure of logic always gets me in this episode.

Even if The Malon Captain were too stupid to realize that he could sell the tech Voyager was offering for a shit load of money and live like a king instead of poisoning himself with radiation every fucking day for the rest of his life, there's still the people producing that radiation. Those people would be ecstatic to get that technology. No more having to package up all that radioactive crap and paying people to get rid of it. You can just process it into usable stuff and sell that stuff. Once all the new tech is fully paid for, the rest is pure profit.

I mean, the change wouldn't happen overnight, but it would definitely happen. If we got technology to turn smog into useful shit, we would use it.

And they get to keep the Malon as a threat. The Malon people might love Voyager, but the captains and crews of those ships would hate them for putting them out of a job.

I would agree with you, aside from the reticent, if not monstrous attitudes company owners, politicans, and economists have with the kind of sweeping tech changes we've had with going from fossil fuels to renewables, whether for cities and/or transportation. I'm not just talking development, which is pretty much where Voyager is footing the bill here, I'm talking deployment of said energy upgrades over their entire civilization. Even if Emck was Mr. Green Energy, he'd have to deal with an economy being used to polluting everywhere and those earning money hand over fist would do what they could to stop it. Emck would face all sorts of troubles. Lobbyists would be pulling every trick they could to make it look awful or stop it in it's tracks.

As a RL anecdotal example, my college town was fracking, and everyday to the election on the decision to ban fracking, we got daily leaflets on how ending fracking would devastate us, with photos of a playground into some sort of abandoned ruin due to lack of funding.

Imagine similar problems for Emck or any Malon environmentalists as they try to push through clean energy. Imagine all the crews of those Malon freighters out of work and being used by conservative pundits on why clean energy is a bad idea. Imagine those out of work crews picketing Emck's company. Imagine all his contracts not being renewed due to him being perceived as risky.

All that said, it's something that would eventually build traction and become popular, but for a business owner like Emck, he'd prefer guaranteed profits over something that might be risky financially.

I think the answer really depends on whether Voyager's envirotech is more like: "Here's an expansion you can stick on your power plant that turns nuclear waste into more energy!" vs. "Here's a new power plant design that produces no nuclear waste!"

The people who are against fracking bans are opposed because they don't want all the capital they have in fracking to become worthless. If, for example, the US made moves to become some kind of all hydrogen economy (something that appears less plausible every year), I doubt the fracking people would mind given that hydrogen mostly comes from natural gas. If technological change favors a hypothetical guy with a bunch of cash more than the existing industrialist in the industry, there will be opposition.

[clearspira]

The only thing that corporations care about is money. To say anything else is to display a shocking level of naivete. Corporations only do ''what's right'' when forced by the public or government to do so. Look at how Disney claims to love LGBT and black rights and then airbrushes Poe and Lesbians out of certain parts of the Star Wars Sequels for China.

[pilight]

I don't think Paris has to change outside the holodeck. I think he does it by choice to help him get into character. It's all part of the experience.