The Elysian Kingdom (SNW)

[clearspira]

I find it amusing that M'Benga's daughter arc lasted barely 3 episodes, with her only appearing on screen for like 10 minutes, I think. Yet another example of "the writers didn't think this through", which is typical of NuTrek.

I agree that they often don't things through, but in this case they avoided nuTrek's cardinal sin of dragging everything out for far too long. M'Benga's daughter stuck around long enough to be relevant to specific episodes, but did not overstay her welcome in an overdone and drawn out angst drenched season long dominating plot. Discovery could have taken notes.

I suspect they wanted to avoid an "Alexander" situation where the character is stuck with a child they have to write in about.

Ben Sisko is still the only single father allowed in Star Trek. Hell, in pretty much most of fiction. Do you realise how rare it is for a single dad to be black AND sympathetic AND responsible AND not a bumbling idiot?

DS9 is ahead of its time in so many ways that we haven't caught up even today.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I think m’benga is being written kinda like Anakin Skywalker where you’re given doses of a character’s persona through discrete tales in order to arrive at a certain rising that everyone’s familiar with.

[CharlesPhipps]

Ben Sisko is still the only single father allowed in Star Trek. Hell, in pretty much most of fiction. Do you realise how rare it is for a single dad to be black AND sympathetic AND responsible AND not a bumbling idiot?

DS9 is ahead of its time in so many ways that we haven't caught up even today.

Notably, Avery Brooks wanted Sisko to get married again.

[McAvoy]

Ben Sisko is still the only single father allowed in Star Trek. Hell, in pretty much most of fiction. Do you realise how rare it is for a single dad to be black AND sympathetic AND responsible AND not a bumbling idiot?

DS9 is ahead of its time in so many ways that we haven't caught up even today.

Notably, Avery Brooks wanted Sisko to get married again.

Well men can still get remarried after being widowed so not that big of a deal. It also shows that he has moved on from his wife's death though I suspect he did probably around season 4.

[clearspira]

Ben Sisko is still the only single father allowed in Star Trek. Hell, in pretty much most of fiction. Do you realise how rare it is for a single dad to be black AND sympathetic AND responsible AND not a bumbling idiot?

DS9 is ahead of its time in so many ways that we haven't caught up even today.

Notably, Avery Brooks wanted Sisko to get married again.

Well men can still get remarried after being widowed so not that big of a deal. It also shows that he has moved on from his wife's death though I suspect he did probably around season 4.

Sisko is one of the only characters in old Trek to get a proper character arc. The man is barely restrained ball of anger when he meets Picard for the first time. And as Chuck notes, Sisko's reaction to the Borg wasn't to go home and cry in the mud like Picard, it was to build the Federation's most powerful warship.

And yet Sisko never actually gets that revenge. When the time came, it was Worf on the Defiant, not him. Sisko chose his station and Bajor over the Earth and the Borg. His priorities changed and with it gained a level of peace over the death of his wife.

[Nobody700]

Ben Sisko is still the only single father allowed in Star Trek. Hell, in pretty much most of fiction. Do you realise how rare it is for a single dad to be black AND sympathetic AND responsible AND not a bumbling idiot?

DS9 is ahead of its time in so many ways that we haven't caught up even today.

Notably, Avery Brooks wanted Sisko to get married again.

Well men can still get remarried after being widowed so not that big of a deal. It also shows that he has moved on from his wife's death though I suspect he did probably around season 4.

Sisko is one of the only characters in old Trek to get a proper character arc. The man is barely restrained ball of anger when he meets Picard for the first time. And as Chuck notes, Sisko's reaction to the Borg wasn't to go home and cry in the mud like Picard, it was to build the Federation's most powerful warship.

And yet Sisko never actually gets that revenge. When the time came, it was Worf on the Defiant, not him. Sisko chose his station and Bajor over the Earth and the Borg. His priorities changed and with it gained a level of peace over the death of his wife.

I still wish DS9 got a film. I know no one aside from Trekkies gave a shit about DS9, but man the series coulda had Sisko return and do some great stuff on how a post dominion war Federation worked. Also they could fixed the dumbest parts of the finale... everything involving the Pa Wraiths.

[Deledrius]

Making Benny Russell real and a fantasy writer has a lot of weird implications. It means he made a wildly successful children's book that people are still reading centuries later but it means he never got to do DS9 or continue in pulp sci-fi. Which is a weird bit of continuity derived from an Easter Egg but actually has a lot of depressing implications.

I agree.

This is one of those "references" that feels like a reference for reference's sake (or an Easter Egg, if you prefer), instead of something that would happen in a genuine consistent world. Is it entirely inconceivable? Certainly not, but it's a sufficiently large stretch that for me it broke the suspension of disbelief. That was a "oh, these people want me to know they remember Benny Russel is a Trek Character who was an Author" moment. It doesn't have the ring of truth to it, for me.

It also doesn't help that because it's a fictional story that we only get a tiny glimpse of, the episode overall fails to really get me to connect with the story. I don't know it, and I don't feel like I do still by the end. It was a collection of broad stereotypes and random characterizations and no real meaningful allegory to any of them (which is reasonable to expect from a fictional fairytale used to anchor a "what if" type of episode).

This doesn't seem like the kind of story that Benny Russel would write, because of the genre, the format, and the lack of an apparent personal connection.

I find it amusing that M'Benga's daughter arc lasted barely 3 episodes, with her only appearing on screen for like 10 minutes, I think. Yet another example of "the writers didn't think this through", which is typical of NuTrek.

I agree that they often don't things through, but in this case they avoided nuTrek's cardinal sin of dragging everything out for far too long. M'Benga's daughter stuck around long enough to be relevant to specific episodes, but did not overstay her welcome in an overdone and drawn out angst drenched season long dominating plot. Discovery could have taken notes.

It's better than that alternative, sure, but it felt really abrupt and unsatisfying to me. I thought this was an intriguing major character subplot, but it ended up feeling like it mattered as much as getting over a bad haircut. "A wizard did it" is not a great way to solve the problem, and an episode that feels like such a dud overall means that the journey as well as the destination falls flat.

It's even weirder now that Season 2 has seemingly re-rolled the dice on the Doc's character and shuffled him around some more. It's entirely disconnected from the Season 1 tone, and her absence is part of that.

[clearspira]

Making Benny Russell real and a fantasy writer has a lot of weird implications. It means he made a wildly successful children's book that people are still reading centuries later but it means he never got to do DS9 or continue in pulp sci-fi. Which is a weird bit of continuity derived from an Easter Egg but actually has a lot of depressing implications.

I agree.

This is one of those "references" that feels like a reference for reference's sake (or an Easter Egg, if you prefer), instead of something that would happen in a genuine consistent world. Is it entirely inconceivable? Certainly not, but it's a sufficiently large stretch that for me it broke the suspension of disbelief. That was a "oh, these people want me to know they remember Benny Russel is a Trek Character who was an Author" moment. It doesn't have the ring of truth to it, for me.

It also doesn't help that because it's a fictional story that we only get a tiny glimpse of, the episode overall fails to really get me to connect with the story. I don't know it, and I don't feel like I do still by the end. It was a collection of broad stereotypes and random characterizations and no real meaningful allegory to any of them (which is reasonable to expect from a fictional fairytale used to anchor a "what if" type of episode).

This doesn't seem like the kind of story that Benny Russel would write, because of the genre, the format, and the lack of an apparent personal connection.

I find it amusing that M'Benga's daughter arc lasted barely 3 episodes, with her only appearing on screen for like 10 minutes, I think. Yet another example of "the writers didn't think this through", which is typical of NuTrek.

I agree that they often don't things through, but in this case they avoided nuTrek's cardinal sin of dragging everything out for far too long. M'Benga's daughter stuck around long enough to be relevant to specific episodes, but did not overstay her welcome in an overdone and drawn out angst drenched season long dominating plot. Discovery could have taken notes.

It's better than that alternative, sure, but it felt really abrupt and unsatisfying to me. I thought this was an intriguing major character subplot, but it ended up feeling like it mattered as much as getting over a bad haircut. "A wizard did it" is not a great way to solve the problem, and an episode that feels like such a dud overall means that the journey as well as the destination falls flat.

It's even weirder now that Season 2 has seemingly re-rolled the dice on the Doc's character and shuffled him around some more. It's entirely disconnected from the Season 1 tone, and her absence is part of that.

M'Benga in TOS just isnt this character. Frankly we need a re-roll because I do not see how this guy ever becomes who we know later on. Plus, what happens to him to get replaced by the old man in the TOS pilot? Although I greatly suspect that no one writing this remembers him just as no one seems to remember Gary Mitchell. Kirk is back but his best friend isn't? Besides general continuity, I would kind of enjoy the ESP angle returning.

[CharlesPhipps]

To be fair, the implications from the episode is that Kirk was engaging in some (very mild) cronyism by getting his best friend to be his pilot for the Enterprise once he became Captain of the Flagship (or at least one of the 12 Constitution vessels). So my take was Gary Mitchell is a recent transfer from wherever to Kirk's vessel.

I also like that Kirk's relationship with his brother is being expanded. You get why Sam is not cut out for Starfleet and will eventually do the Boimler thing of transferring to an outpost to have a family and get murdered.

[McAvoy]

Ben Sisko is still the only single father allowed in Star Trek. Hell, in pretty much most of fiction. Do you realise how rare it is for a single dad to be black AND sympathetic AND responsible AND not a bumbling idiot?

DS9 is ahead of its time in so many ways that we haven't caught up even today.

Notably, Avery Brooks wanted Sisko to get married again.

Well men can still get remarried after being widowed so not that big of a deal. It also shows that he has moved on from his wife's death though I suspect he did probably around season 4.

Sisko is one of the only characters in old Trek to get a proper character arc. The man is barely restrained ball of anger when he meets Picard for the first time. And as Chuck notes, Sisko's reaction to the Borg wasn't to go home and cry in the mud like Picard, it was to build the Federation's most powerful warship.

And yet Sisko never actually gets that revenge. When the time came, it was Worf on the Defiant, not him. Sisko chose his station and Bajor over the Earth and the Borg. His priorities changed and with it gained a level of peace over the death of his wife.

Alot of the DS9 characters had proper character arcs. Even Dukat. Kira? Yes. Odo? Yes. Hell Rom had one.

Bashir was a mess. O'Brien didn't really have an arc but more of a minor character from TNG getting expanded in DS9. Word did have one in DS9 but that was a continuation from TNG. He along Data having real arcs over the course of that show honestly.

Quark I don't think had an arc but more or less a Ferengi trying his best to be a Ferengi but one with a heart.