Lower Decks: A Look at We'll Always Have Tom Paris

[Nobody700]

It's just an absolute shame that the Kazon had NO good stories or ideas cause they had a lot of potential as this proto Klingons that could and will be changed, and instead... they're just lamer klingons. Than again, I can say the same for Talaxians. Who were they? We have to wait for THE THIRD TO LAST EPISODE to see more than two Talaxians in a shot... and technically they helped save Voyager in the season 3 premier! That's how lame they are to Voyager, they saved their asses... and we DON'T EVEN SEE THEM BEYOND ONE DUDE WHO I DON'T THINK HAD A NAME!

[stryke]

The Kazon as written really do not seem to have anything to offer a Cardassian deep cover agent (presumably Obsidian Order).

She was specificically military intelligence rather than Obsidian Order though I don't know why they chose to make that distinction.

But yeah my biggest what if Voyager redo is take the other road not taken from State of Flux. Seska is a Cardassian, but she really is innocent, as noted the Kazon have nothing to offer her and her best chance is Voyager for getting home. Make Carey the actual traitor. Have his resentment over being passed over for an emotionally unstable violent half-klingon thug make him decide that maybe the Kazon will offer him a deal where they'll let him live like a king thanks to his engineering knowledge. Even in the main reality he's a bit of a lech when he encounters Seven for a supposed family man. Wouldn't be the first time that's happened either with that one guy in Strange New Worlds.

It's just an absolute shame that the Kazon had NO good stories or ideas cause they had a lot of potential as this proto Klingons that could and will be changed, and instead...

Basics is pretty solid, but yeah that's about it. Talaxians I'd say did better thanks to that one guy held captive by the Vidians in Faces, and the 'friend' of Neelix who turns up to make his life complicated in Fair Trade.

[clearspira]

The Kazon as written really do not seem to have anything to offer a Cardassian deep cover agent (presumably Obsidian Order).

She was specificically military intelligence rather than Obsidian Order though I don't know why they chose to make that distinction.

But yeah my biggest what if Voyager redo is take the other road not taken from State of Flux. Seska is a Cardassian, but she really is innocent, as noted the Kazon have nothing to offer her and her best chance is Voyager for getting home. Make Carey the actual traitor. Have his resentment over being passed over for an emotionally unstable violent half-klingon thug make him decide that maybe the Kazon will offer him a deal where they'll let him live like a king thanks to his engineering knowledge. Even in the main reality he's a bit of a lech when he encounters Seven for a supposed family man. Wouldn't be the first time that's happened either with that one guy in Strange New Worlds.

Something else occurs to me about Seska along the lines that you just brought up: there is a treaty between the Federation and the Cardassians against the Maquis. It comes up repeatedly in TNG, DS9 and VOY.

So, with that in mind, why the continued subterfuge on Seska's part? She could have gone straight to Janeway on day 1 and admitted what she is and Janeway would have been obliged to listen. Seska is an ALLIED foreign agent. She is Felix Leiter. Maybe that would necessitate a few precautions, but she wouldn't have been strung up in irons for it.

I actually think that would have been way more interesting - a Cardassian official surrounded by Maquis, Chakotay torn between the two. But nah... that would have required the Maquis conflict to have lasted beyond Learning Curve.

[Durandal_1707]

Something else occurs to me about Seska along the lines that you just brought up: there is a treaty between the Federation and the Cardassians against the Maquis. It comes up repeatedly in TNG, DS9 and VOY.

So, with that in mind, why the continued subterfuge on Seska's part? She could have gone straight to Janeway on day 1 and admitted what she is and Janeway would have been obliged to listen. Seska is an ALLIED foreign agent. She is Felix Leiter. Maybe that would necessitate a few precautions, but she wouldn't have been strung up in irons for it.

I wouldn't go as far as to say "allied". The situation with the Federation and Cardassians at the start of Voyager was much more "détente" than "alliance." They were grudgingly accepting each other for the time being because they'd just fought a war and didn't want another one. Seska would definitely have had cause to be cautious about revealing herself as a deep-cover agent among ostensibly Federation citizens (even if rebellious ones). This is all setting aside the fact that half the crew was now made up of Maquis, who would be likely to be pissed off at her no matter what Janeway said.

[McAvoy]

Something else occurs to me about Seska along the lines that you just brought up: there is a treaty between the Federation and the Cardassians against the Maquis. It comes up repeatedly in TNG, DS9 and VOY.

So, with that in mind, why the continued subterfuge on Seska's part? She could have gone straight to Janeway on day 1 and admitted what she is and Janeway would have been obliged to listen. Seska is an ALLIED foreign agent. She is Felix Leiter. Maybe that would necessitate a few precautions, but she wouldn't have been strung up in irons for it.

I wouldn't go as far as to say "allied". The situation with the Federation and Cardassians at the start of Voyager was much more "détente" than "alliance." They were grudgingly accepting each other for the time being because they'd just fought a war and didn't want another one. Seska would definitely have had cause to be cautious about revealing herself as a deep-cover agent among ostensibly Federation citizens (even if rebellious ones). This is all setting aside the fact that half the crew was now made up of Maquis, who would be likely to be pissed off at her no matter what Janeway said.

You know if we go with the Maquis and Starfleet in conflict with each other over the course of a couple of seasons, you could definitely use Seska in that role. Maybe she is the ring leader for the more rebellious Maquis who don't want to do the boyscout Starfleet ways.

Or maybe she plays both sides before she saves Chakotay/Voyager in some finale that results in her death. Maybe that would be the moment where the conflict finally ends.

Yeah I never got why Seska would want to join with the Kazons. It was always thin to me.

[Madner Kami]

Funny thing is, the Kazon were probably the most flexible story-hook Voyager had in it's early seasons. As a race, they lack any sort of unified characteristics. They're just a wild bunch of fractured groups with wildly different objectives beyond survival. There's a whole lot of room for a splinter faction that tries to live a more civilized life beyond warlordism and could've allied with Voyager. Hell, there could be an entire Kazon Trading Federation out there and as for Kazon making it to the Alpha Quadrant, why not? They have no home beyond the territory they can hold with their limited militaries. Why not have a few go out there and trying to find a home beyond the known stars, always on the run because they need to steal to survive? Besides, there's always that odd space wedgie that could've catapulted them to Sha-Ka-Re-knows-where.

But alas, Voyager, where potential goes to die...

[McAvoy]

Funny thing is, the Kazon were probably the most flexible story-hook Voyager had in it's early seasons. As a race, they lack any sort of unified characteristics. They're just a wild bunch of fractured groups with wildly different objectives beyond survival. There's a whole lot of room for a splinter faction that tries to live a more civilized life beyond warlordism and could've allied with Voyager. Hell, there could be an entire Kazon Trading Federation out there and as for Kazon making it to the Alpha Quadrant, why not? They have no home beyond the territory they can hold with their limited militaries. Why not have a few go out there and trying to find a home beyond the known stars, always on the run because they need to steal to survive? Besides, there's always that odd space wedgie that could've catapulted them to Sha-Ka-Re-knows-where.

But alas, Voyager, where potential goes to die...

They certainly could have done anything. Brand new species and all that. The writers could have at least attempted not to do the whole mono culture thing they usually do with Star Trek aliens. It's an already fragmented species split into Space Gangs. Could have had at least a 'good' Kazon sect.

Vidiians though we're a much better threat. Body horror and all that too. But they worked better as is. Just a species trying to figure out a cure while actively processing body parts to replace their failing ones. No need to go after Voyager.

[CharlesPhipps]

The Kazon suffered like the Ferengi for their silly design.

They wanted Mad Max, they got Muppets.

[clearspira]

The Kazon suffered like the Ferengi for their silly design.

They wanted Mad Max, they got Muppets.

I really like the Ferengi design. At least they look vaguely inhuman. Wrinkled noses and pointed ears are such nonsense when you think about it. Cool teeth too.

The Kazon design is a failure though. They're Klingons who wear granny blankets and have indescribably odd hair - if it even is hair. Looks more like they have bushes growing out of their heads.

[McAvoy]

The Kazon suffered like the Ferengi for their silly design.

They wanted Mad Max, they got Muppets.

I really like the Ferengi design. At least they look vaguely inhuman. Wrinkled noses and pointed ears are such nonsense when you think about it. Cool teeth too.

The Kazon design is a failure though. They're Klingons who wear granny blankets and have indescribably odd hair - if it even is hair. Looks more like they have bushes growing out of their heads.

I agree. Picard Season 3 had an updated looking Ferengi which took me awhile why I thiught he looked off. First it was the beard which was weird but it was the ears. Ferengi before this basically had no ear hole, it was colored black and we all ignored it.

Also this Ferengi compared to all Ferengi that we have seen actually had a menace to him.