Picard - Maps and Legends

[CharlesPhipps]

As Chuck said, Wolf 359 was to the Federation what 9/11 was to post-Cold War America. Man

Very, very delayed reaction.
Wolf 359 was barely an inconvenience. Riker rescued Picard, Picard played in the mud with the brother and was totally cured for 50 years, PIC 1/05 spoilers.

9/11 led to a big deal in real life, 359 barely changed anything. Especially the airline industry cashed in on the planoroia and banned shampoo to this very day.

359 had consequences in DS9, Sisko lost people he loved and designed the Defiant class warship. A sensible response to the threat, a thing we never saw in RL from 9/11.

9/11 led to evil and stupid bureaucracy immediately. 359 only led to evil and stupid bureaucracy in Voyager and Enterprise.

We had an attempted military coup of the Federation in DS9. Also a general breakdown in idealism and build up of paranoia and fear.

[CaptainCalvinCat]

As Chuck said, Wolf 359 was to the Federation what 9/11 was to post-Cold War America. Man

Very, very delayed reaction.
Wolf 359 was barely an inconvenience. Riker rescued Picard, Picard played in the mud with the brother and was totally cured for 50 years, PIC 1/05 spoilers.

9/11 led to a big deal in real life, 359 barely changed anything. Especially the airline industry cashed in on the planoroia and banned shampoo to this very day.

359 had consequences in DS9, Sisko lost people he loved and designed the Defiant class warship. A sensible response to the threat, a thing we never saw in RL from 9/11.

9/11 led to evil and stupid bureaucracy immediately. 359 only led to evil and stupid bureaucracy in Voyager and Enterprise.

We had an attempted military coup of the Federation in DS9. Also a general breakdown in idealism and build up of paranoia and fear.

Very true.
Wolf 359 itself was a blip on the radar - I agree with that. But the ramifications of it were big.
The whole Cardassian-Peace-treaty (complete with emergence of the Maquis) was due to the Federation noticing "Oh, we met an enemy, that can destroy a whole fleet of ships. We need allies now more than ever." (And that happened on TNG)
The Maquis did not appear out of the blue in the season-two-two-parter of Deep Space Nine, it emerged in season 5 of TNG.

[Captain Crimson]

RE: Star Trek EU. Correct me if I'm wrong, I was never into the STEU, but isn't the STEU inconsistent to the actual TV shows? It was never on the same level as the SWEU, and believe me when I say you should expect the writers to retcon whatever the H they feel like from the STEU. Like we see in the new SWEU.

In regards to serialization, I think that only works if you had planned out the whole plot beforehand. B5 should be the blueprint... and yet it isn't. If that approach had been been the standard, early STD wouldn't have been bogged down by such old-school mistakes the franchise should be past now and, IMO, wouldn't have been plagued by such a polarizing reputation. But then... Mr. JMS had completely different priorities than the modern crop of SJW writers, namely, above all, he wanted to tell a good story and he was a completely liberal writer. Classical liberal and not modern-day woke types. Makes all the difference.

One of the biggest problems is that he's clearly following Stewart's ethical system, not Picard's. Picard has frequently and loudly expressed the idea that saving people from a natural disaster is a horrible crime that spits in the eye of nature.

And thus why the man who spouted on the PD can then turn around and ignore it. Which, TBF, perhaps this was the breaking point for him and in his long exile, he had reevaluated it and found it wanting. Perfectly in line with a Picard who sees the UFP as a shell of what they were. Which could potentially mean much-needed revision to the PD in the future (oh hey, constitution allegory). We're far from the post-Vietnam anti-interventionist rhetoric! Lay some post-9/11 interventionism on me, baby!

On Jennifer Sisko, my takeway was pure UFP arrogance. The words of Admiral Hansen seem to bear this out. They thought it was a threat similar to any other they could take on. No different from Picard's pontification in S2, so how fitting he was the one to deliver it right back.

This reminds me of Mr. Chuck's comments on Fury. Trying to wax nostalgia by p*****g all over it. Were older fans really asking for this? Older fans at this point just want a good story, and the ST fandom is infamous for nitpicking about details. Those are the kinda fans they need, and don't want. Say that, you get brushed off as an SJW, and even if you're not a "toxic fan," you're clearly not what they market to as that requires a dumbing down and sacrifice of lore, continuity, character motives, clever plots...

As Chuck said, Wolf 359 was to the Federation what 9/11 was to post-Cold War America. Man, I remember the 1990s. And whilst i fully agree with what our fellow poster Kami once pointed out about how shitty certain parts of Europe were in the wake of 1989, in Britain and the US things seemed so bright. Good films, good TV, everyone was getting richer and more equal, and our enemies seemed vanquished. In those days, as stupid as it seems now, I can see why the Enterprise became a flying mall tbh.

I'll tell you this much, if you told me in 2000 what 2020 would look like I wouldn't have believed you.

I'll have to take your word, since I was born near the tail end of the '90s, but my takeway is there's a certain level of privilege here. Not the typical SJW type, mind you. Granted, it's good some countries were in a full-blown economic explosion, but others were less fortunate. The loss of the USSR and the instituting of capitalism caused four million Russian deaths in Mr. Yeltsin's famines, IIRC. Also certain Latin American countries had their own problems like with Shining Path. But it kinda makes me wish I could recall those memories a bit more. Spilt milk, I guess.

Last thoughts, I'm fairly confident in the future, who knows when, once STD and STP have wrapped up, Mr. Chuck will most likely make a vid that offers a more concise ranking within the series. I can't wait!

[Madner Kami]

The loss of the USSR and the instituting of capitalism caused four million Russian deaths in Mr. Yeltsin's famines, IIRC.

What way too many people, particularly in modern day Russia completely forget is, that this would have happened regardless of Jelzin, Gorbatschow, Perestroika, Glasnost and Capitalism or not. The eastern block was crumbling fast and hard in the late 80s and was fast-tracking to an economic collapse either way.
Today still, I constantly have to remind people around me, who reminisce about "the good old time", how the housing looked. Many people still had no toilets in their flats, but an out-room in the stairwell in older buildings. In the rural areas, having to pump your own water and shitting in an out-house was the norm, central heating was something you only found in the concrete-slab buildings and most had to still use coal for heating even in the cities. The streets were constantly torn up and under-repaired, because of the many russian shows of force aka parades. Most houses had literally crumbling fascades that were nothing but withered grey plastering falling off bit by bit, revealing the only other colour available for your house, namely the red of the bricks underneath. And this was in Eastern Germany, in one of the more well-developed areas... Today I only have to look to some areas in the Carpathian Mountains, Romania or rural Russia, to know where this all was heading...